UK Emergency Services

Mike-B posted:

.....it seems we don't even have the ability to drop water by helicopter;  what does it take to have helicopter water drop bags ready for such emergencies together with pre-trained military crews available to be called into action.

Perhaps we will see those later today...

Christopher_M posted:

Mike-B posted:

.....it seems we don't even have the ability to drop water by helicopter;  what does it take to have helicopter water drop bags ready for such emergencies together with pre-trained military crews available to be called into action.

Perhaps we will see those later today...

Once they've finished their health and safety briefing, the military crew will be sent off to procurement for a roll of gaffer tape to patch up the holes in the bags. It will take approximately 25 years for somebody to locate the gaffer tape in a massive warehouse in Gloucestershire, by which time the fire should have burnt itself out. 

How do these fires start?

naim_nymph posted:

How do these fires start?

Hi Debs,   most are quick to blame discarded cigarette or deliberate,   but glass/metal reflected sun or as I've seen in another part of the world, spontaneous combustion,  a lot more causes of starting the fires than the one way to put it out.   With any heath fire the fire gets into the roots,  this will smoulder, sometimes for days & reignite the vegetation again.   Root fires can only be put out with water & enough of it to soak the upper root organic soil layer right down to soil level.  That means a lot of heli-water drops with such an inaccessible area & terrain. 

If it's not smokers discarding lit cigarette butts, or pyromaniac arsonists, then it's mindless litterbugs dropping rubbish...?

I'd bet it's more of a human cause of oblivious uncaring, shame there are so many idiots in the world.

I know 'rubbish' maybe only indirectly on topic here, but increasingly over the past decade it saddens me to see so much discarded stuff in the hedgerows everywhere i cycle. A lot of it seems to be McDonalds - Burger King - beer cans - et al, and intentionally ejected from the car windows of moronic motorists.

I too like to have a little rant sometimes ; )

Debs

Having a 300 foot frontage on the A38 I can confirm Debs' analysis of the litter (with the addition in this area of cider bottles and cans) - junk food chucked out of car windows by mindless scum. In spite of paying £2k+ in council tax it is apparently my job to pick all this up.

Yep - nothing like a good rant....

Many of these fires are, in fact, started by farmers, who need to remove the heather in order to maintain the land as grazing. Once burnt, the grass will grow back first, and it then takes some years for the heather to return. Since this was outlawed, along with stubble burning, largely because of the carbon dioxide it produces, it has been very easy for farmers to continue to sneak out and torch the edge of a patch of heather. If questioned, they only need to deny all knowledge and blame 'some stupid kids' and nobody can prove anything. Usually, no harm comes of this (other than the carbon dioxide produced) but of course, it can get out of control, especially in larger swathes of heather like Saddleworth Moor, and how this particular fire was started, I have no idea. So yes, it is easy to blame smokers, arsonists and kids, but I would suggest that they are more often a scapegoat that a perpetrator. 

Our emergency services are over worked and under paid and under funded. Thank you to all of them I say 

ChrisSU posted:

Many of these fires are, in fact, started by farmers, who need to remove the heather in order to maintain the land as grazing. Once burnt, the grass will grow back first, and it then takes some years for the heather to return. Since this was outlawed, along with stubble burning, largely because of the carbon dioxide it produces, it has been very easy for farmers to continue to sneak out and torch the edge of a patch of heather. If questioned, they only need to deny all knowledge and blame 'some stupid kids' and nobody can prove anything. Usually, no harm comes of this (other than the carbon dioxide produced) but of course, it can get out of control, especially in larger swathes of heather like Saddleworth Moor, and how this particular fire was started, I have no idea. So yes, it is easy to blame smokers, arsonists and kids, but I would suggest that they are more often a scapegoat that a perpetrator. 

So it's okay for farmers to commit the criminal act of arson, risking the lives of local people & pets, properties, all kinds of wildlife, causing pollution, alarm and distress, costing the resources of the emergency services...

naim_nymph posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Many of these fires are, in fact, started by farmers, who need to remove the heather in order to maintain the land as grazing. Once burnt, the grass will grow back first, and it then takes some years for the heather to return. Since this was outlawed, along with stubble burning, largely because of the carbon dioxide it produces, it has been very easy for farmers to continue to sneak out and torch the edge of a patch of heather. If questioned, they only need to deny all knowledge and blame 'some stupid kids' and nobody can prove anything. Usually, no harm comes of this (other than the carbon dioxide produced) but of course, it can get out of control, especially in larger swathes of heather like Saddleworth Moor, and how this particular fire was started, I have no idea. So yes, it is easy to blame smokers, arsonists and kids, but I would suggest that they are more often a scapegoat that a perpetrator. 

 

So it's okay for farmers to commit the criminal act of arson, risking the lives of local people & pets, properties, all kinds of wildlife, causing pollution, alarm and distress, costing the resources of the emergency services...

In the vast majority of cases, farmers will do this in a controlled manner, when the wind takes the fire away from habitation and only clears a limited area of land. Of course, that does not make it legal. 

Alba1320 posted:

Why 'UK' Emergency Services?

Scotland has had numerous wildfires this year, a situation that is not unusual, despite clichés about Scottish weather ; for example:

Large Fire Near Spittal

I'm guessing that they received little attention on the 'UK' news (perhaps the one on Arthur's Seat (in Edinburgh) got a mention?), but, as far as I know, they were dealt with in a perfectly reasonable, efficient and professional manner?

(At least, I don't recall any criticism from the media, and normally, it doesn't take much for public services in Scotland to be criticised (not that some of it isn't justified, of course)).

Indeed,  normal wildfires get handled & I guess in some circumstances make local news, I expect its done efficiently & does not attract criticism.   My point in starting this thread is this fire has been burning uncontrolled for 4 days, its now making national news headlines, the army have finally been called to help although how they will help has yet to be seen,  but where is the national plan to escalate fire control to something resembling what we see with wildfires overseas.

Are you going to bed happier than when you got up, Mike?!

Best, C.

Around 100 soldiers and a Chinook helicopter at Saddleworth Moor fire now, according to BBC radio news. 

Christopher_M posted:

Are you going to bed happier than when you got up, Mike?!

Best, C.

Nah bah humbug,  I'm just a miserable ol' git.   

Yup I see the army has arrived,  100 Reg of Scotland lads bussed in from Catterick.   The thing that still surprises me is the 'one' Chinook will be used 'to move water-pumping equipment by air'.   There is still no talk of water bomb bags & considering Saddleworth Moor has three large water reservoirs to west & north & each bordering the affected fire area   .......   ????      

Yes, from what I've heard on the radio, I don't think one Chinook is going to do it either.

Maybe the Chinook can divert from Odiham to Somerset, and pick up a high volume water pump or two, left after the flooding in Feb 2014     and then to Lancs.

BBC News  " ,,,,,,,,,, The Chinook helicopter was due to fly out of RAF Odiham, Hampshire, to move water-pumping equipment but Greater Manchester Fire and Rescue Service (GMFRS) notified the Ministry of Defence it was "no longer required"........ "

BBC News   " .... United Utilities helicopter has started collecting water to drop on parts of the blaze the troops cannot reach .... "  

Maybe a few days too late,  but lets hope it works for the sake of the local community