Amps that are better than Nait XS 2

Iconoclast posted:

Hi,

Finally decided to move on from my Nait XS 2. What amps have you experienced (Naim or other) that are clearly better than the XS 2, particularly in bass control and dynamics without being overly aggressive and/or costing a fortune? I found the XS 2's main quality is that it plays most of my music collection without offending. I remember at the time of purchase I hesitated between the XS 2, SN 2 and Rega Elex R. The SN 2 would have probably been the better choice in the long run but at the time I found the price a bit steep. The Elex R was exciting (and cheaper) but I was afraid it might irritate in the long run. I could sell my 4 year old XS 2 and pick up a slightly used Elex R (still on warranty) and still have change left over to spend on other gear (speakers, DAC). The prices on new Naim gear have skyrocketed here in Canada.

Exposure Super XX

FWIW - Lots of information using the search feature for folks who currently own, or have owned, the XS 2 and their opinion(s). Plenty of information about upgrade paths to different platforms to replace the XS 2 also reside in the archive. I know since I owned an XS 2 and when I wanted to upgrade I did a lot of reading on this forum and a couple of others. Where I ended up after the upgrade was based on a lot of reading and demonstrations at the dealer of the couple of options I was most interested in.

Each us enjoy music but we may not all hear it the same so one's person pleasure does not always work for everyone else. So after you get all your opinions and information you still need to go out and get a demonstration or buy on blind faith.  There is also the odds & ends like, house or apartment, how many boxes on the rack, room size, cables & interconnects, budget, and other factors.

For me I went from a 'ND5XS > PS > XS 2 > NAC A5 > Ovator S-400' to a 'NDX > PS > SuperNait 2 > NAC A5 > Ovator S-400' and I am quite happy.  The other system I demo'd was a NAC 272 > 250DR.

Good Luck with your decision.

Christopher_M posted:

Naim's best vfm amp, NAC202 with NAPSC, and NAP200. Where it starts to get serious.

That's exactly what I'm looking at doing...

Iconoclast posted:

> What I'm trying to achieve is better sound, with the XS 2 or without it. <

On the "without" option, the Atoll IN200 Signature integrated (CDN $2659) pretty much matched my SN2 in the criteria that I value most, i.e., musical engagement and depth of musical experience. It equals the SN2 in its rhythmic abilities, maintains interest at low listening levels, does musical scale very well, and goes loud without strain. The Signature series is a decent step up from the previous models.  I found that it tends to present the midrange slightly forward in the mix, an effect similar to adding a centre channel. Rather nice, as it maintains focus on the central instrument(s) or singer ; it is especially helpful on film soundtracks when listening in 2.0 home cinema mode. The slight midrange emphasis comes at no cost to the rest of the frequency spectrum, to my ears. What I most appreciated was the amp's rhythmic surefootedness on all types of music. Options include two phono cards (MM: $100, MC: $169) and a DAC card using the AKM4490 chip ($450).  The latter card adds 2 coaxial and 2 optical inputs (up to 192 kHz) and a USB input (PCM up to 384 kHz, DSD up to DSD128). There is also another model up, the IN300, which I've not heard.

The previous Atoll IN200 did a lot of things right but was not as engaging as Naim. The Signature eliminates the difference.

Jan

Christopher_M posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Christopher_M posted:

wrc posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Too bad FlatCap XS is not recommended despite being the logical choice for the XS 2. I spotted a used HiCap DR but I can't help but question why the XS PSU is not recommended for the XS integrated.  What happened to KIS?

You'll also find plenty of comments on this forum saying the Flatcap XS is the natural partner for the XS 2 and therefore a good match. 

It is a great match and I have one on my NAIT XS. But is the FCXS any good to a guy who wants to upgrade his amp? It's kind of throwing good money after bad. But if he's keeping his XS2 it's a different story.

What I'm trying to achieve is better sound, with the XS 2 or without it.

Buy a NAC202 and use your NAIT XS2 as a power amp.

When you can, buy a NAPSC and a NAP 200, and sell your NAIT XS2.

That isn't a supported configuration as you need an external PSU to power the 1st stage of the Nait XS 2s power amp as well as the preamp (I'm not going to tell you how I did that as it's against the forum AUP).

Huge posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Christopher_M posted:

wrc posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Too bad FlatCap XS is not recommended despite being the logical choice for the XS 2. I spotted a used HiCap DR but I can't help but question why the XS PSU is not recommended for the XS integrated.  What happened to KIS?

You'll also find plenty of comments on this forum saying the Flatcap XS is the natural partner for the XS 2 and therefore a good match. 

It is a great match and I have one on my NAIT XS. But is the FCXS any good to a guy who wants to upgrade his amp? It's kind of throwing good money after bad. But if he's keeping his XS2 it's a different story.

What I'm trying to achieve is better sound, with the XS 2 or without it.

Buy a NAC202 and use your NAIT XS2 as a power amp.

When you can, buy a NAPSC and a NAP 200, and sell your NAIT XS2.

That isn't a supported configuration as you need an external PSU to power the 1st stage of the Nait XS 2s power amp as well as the preamp (I'm not going to tell you how I did that as it's against the forum AUP).

I apologise to the OP if that is the case. I am using my NAIT XS as a power amp now in the manner described with a Naim preamp and had assumed that the XS2 could be used in the same way.

I have just found the following in the XS2 owner's manual:

"The link plug should be removed only in the following circumstances:
• A power supply upgrade is to be used.
• An alternative preamplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 power amplifier.
• An alternative power amplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 preamplifier.
Note: When an external preamplifier is connected to the Nait XS 2 power-amp in socket, a fault will initially be indicated by the Nait XS 2 mute button flashing. To clear the fault, press and hold the flashing mute button. This will un-mute the amplifier and turn off the display and volume indicator."

Iconoclast, you will also need a SNAIC4 if you are interested in using your XS2 as a halfway house, on the way to, say, a 202/ 200.

most amps are better, so much choice to make

Would highly recommend the SN2 - since upgrading i am totally smitten by this amp - so much so that I waved my NAP 200 goodbye without a tear in my eye. Once you have become accustomed to its speed, precision and effortless power you can always add a hicap.

tog 

Christopher_M posted:

I have just found the following in the XS2 owner's manual:

"The link plug should be removed only in the following circumstances:
• A power supply upgrade is to be used.
• An alternative preamplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 power amplifier.
• An alternative power amplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 preamplifier.
Note: When an external preamplifier is connected to the Nait XS 2 power-amp in socket, a fault will initially be indicated by the Nait XS 2 mute button flashing. To clear the fault, press and hold the flashing mute button. This will un-mute the amplifier and turn off the display and volume indicator."

Iconoclast, you will also need a SNAIC4 if you are interested in using your XS2 as a halfway house, on the way to, say, a 202/ 200.

Have you tried it?

Iconoclast posted:

Perol posted:

Chag... posted:

.. Go 282/250 if not 252 from XS-2. ????

Chag -

Great suggestion to OP which said it should not cost a fortune..????

I suppose ''a fortune'' is relative. For non your average non-audiophile an XS 2 costs a fortune, for an Arab sheik the Statement series is pocket money.

Too bad FlatCap XS is not recommended despite being the logical choice for the XS 2. I spotted a used HiCap DR but I can't help but question why the XS PSU is not recommended for the XS integrated.  What happened to KIS?

Go for a Flatcap - I didn't like the XS with the Hicap.

Jan-Erik Nordoen posted:

Iconoclast posted:

> What I'm trying to achieve is better sound, with the XS 2 or without it. <

On the "without" option, the Atoll IN200 Signature integrated (CDN $2659) pretty much matched my SN2 in the criteria that I value most, i.e., musical engagement and depth of musical experience. It equals the SN2 in its rhythmic abilities, maintains interest at low listening levels, does musical scale very well, and goes loud without strain. The Signature series is a decent step up from the previous models.  I found that it tends to present the midrange slightly forward in the mix, an effect similar to adding a centre channel. Rather nice, as it maintains focus on the central instrument(s) or singer ; it is especially helpful on film soundtracks when listening in 2.0 home cinema mode. The slight midrange emphasis comes at no cost to the rest of the frequency spectrum, to my ears. What I most appreciated was the amp's rhythmic surefootedness on all types of music. Options include two phono cards (MM: $100, MC: $169) and a DAC card using the AKM4490 chip ($450).  The latter card adds 2 coaxial and 2 optical inputs (up to 192 kHz) and a USB input (PCM up to 384 kHz, DSD up to DSD128). There is also another model up, the IN300, which I've not heard.

The previous Atoll IN200 did a lot of things right but was not as engaging as Naim. The Signature eliminates the difference.

Jan

Hi Jan,

Funny you should mention Atoll. As a matter of fact I was toying with that idea. The few times I've had a chance to listen to that brand I've never been disappointed. Unfortunately it was always in less than perfect conditions and only briefly. I think my bias towards ''The French Sound'' must have kept me from going any further. I will definitely check them out again soon.

seakayaker posted:

FWIW - Lots of information using the search feature for folks who currently own, or have owned, the XS 2 and their opinion(s). Plenty of information about upgrade paths to different platforms to replace the XS 2 also reside in the archive. I know since I owned an XS 2 and when I wanted to upgrade I did a lot of reading on this forum and a couple of others. Where I ended up after the upgrade was based on a lot of reading and demonstrations at the dealer of the couple of options I was most interested in.

Each us enjoy music but we may not all hear it the same so one's person pleasure does not always work for everyone else. So after you get all your opinions and information you still need to go out and get a demonstration or buy on blind faith.  There is also the odds & ends like, house or apartment, how many boxes on the rack, room size, cables & interconnects, budget, and other factors.

For me I went from a 'ND5XS > PS > XS 2 > NAC A5 > Ovator S-400' to a 'NDX > PS > SuperNait 2 > NAC A5 > Ovator S-400' and I am quite happy.  The other system I demo'd was a NAC 272 > 250DR.

Good Luck with your decision.

The SN2 option would be a no-brainer for me except it would require injecting more money than I can afford at this time. I think at this point my only affordable options are keeping the XS 2 and picking up a second hand PS or selling the XS 2 and making a move towards another brand.

Huge posted:

Christopher_M posted:

I have just found the following in the XS2 owner's manual:

"The link plug should be removed only in the following circumstances:
• A power supply upgrade is to be used.
• An alternative preamplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 power amplifier.
• An alternative power amplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 preamplifier.
Note: When an external preamplifier is connected to the Nait XS 2 power-amp in socket, a fault will initially be indicated by the Nait XS 2 mute button flashing. To clear the fault, press and hold the flashing mute button. This will un-mute the amplifier and turn off the display and volume indicator."

Iconoclast, you will also need a SNAIC4 if you are interested in using your XS2 as a halfway house, on the way to, say, a 202/ 200.

Have you tried it?

As I've already written, I've done it with my NAIT XS and a different Naim pre, and have no reason to doubt Naim's words on the XS2.

But I have just seen Iconoclast's response to Seakayaker, so there doesn't seem much point saying more. I mean, how many times can one say the same thing?. Oh wait a minute, this is the Naim forum :-)

leni v posted:

A good amp should expose poor recorded music.

Interesting logic in my mind, and it does promulgate the notion some hold on this forum that poorly recorded music should be more and more exposed by higher level gear. I don't see the reason. In my mind a good amp, or any other component in the system, ought to increase engagement rather than detract. If the music is good with a groove, I want to enjoy it and not be focused on the recording quality. My TV + $200 soundbar gets my toe tapping if the music's got chops.

Christopher_M posted:

Huge posted:

Christopher_M posted:

I have just found the following in the XS2 owner's manual:

"The link plug should be removed only in the following circumstances:
• A power supply upgrade is to be used.
• An alternative preamplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 power amplifier.
• An alternative power amplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 preamplifier.
Note: When an external preamplifier is connected to the Nait XS 2 power-amp in socket, a fault will initially be indicated by the Nait XS 2 mute button flashing. To clear the fault, press and hold the flashing mute button. This will un-mute the amplifier and turn off the display and volume indicator."

Iconoclast, you will also need a SNAIC4 if you are interested in using your XS2 as a halfway house, on the way to, say, a 202/ 200.

Have you tried it?

As I've already written, I've done it with my NAIT XS and a different Naim pre, and have no reason to doubt Naim's words on the XS2.

But I have just seen Iconoclast's response to Seakayaker, so there doesn't seem much point saying more. I mean, how many times can one say the same thing?. Oh wait a minute, this is the Naim forum :-)

I haven't spotted any used 202s locally which is why I've ruled out that option for the time being.

If you can source a Nac 102 it will perform quite similar to 202, but older and different olive cabinet.

What's better than an XS2?  An XS3 of course!  And yes, there will be one eventually.  Being in a similar predicament ( upgrading from a 122/150 ) I chose the Supernait.  And I am very very pleased with it.  Is it better than the xs2?  I don't have any direct experience but I expect it is.  2nd hand prices are very close to the XS2 trade in so this is likely your cheapest option. A used 202/200 is a significant step up in price from the XS2 and you "need" the NAPSC.  And more shelves and more plugs and more to recap after all is said and done (I've soured on the multibox experience - can you tell?)  A used Supernait 2 is slightly more expensive than the 202/200/Napsc in my neck of the woods.         

I have used flatcaps and I recognize what they bring to the table, but if you can get into Supernait or 202/200 territory with just a little more invested then that's a better choice in my experience.

Christopher_M posted:

Huge posted:

Christopher_M posted:

I have just found the following in the XS2 owner's manual:

"The link plug should be removed only in the following circumstances:
• A power supply upgrade is to be used.
• An alternative preamplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 power amplifier.
• An alternative power amplifier is to be used with the Nait XS 2 preamplifier.
Note: When an external preamplifier is connected to the Nait XS 2 power-amp in socket, a fault will initially be indicated by the Nait XS 2 mute button flashing. To clear the fault, press and hold the flashing mute button. This will un-mute the amplifier and turn off the display and volume indicator."

Iconoclast, you will also need a SNAIC4 if you are interested in using your XS2 as a halfway house, on the way to, say, a 202/ 200.

Have you tried it?

As I've already written, I've done it with my NAIT XS and a different Naim pre, and have no reason to doubt Naim's words on the XS2.

But I have just seen Iconoclast's response to Seakayaker, so there doesn't seem much point saying more. I mean, how many times can one say the same thing?. Oh wait a minute, this is the Naim forum :-)

I have tried it - it didn't work using the standard connection scheme.