Instruction manuals

The online help system gives you  very limited answers (almost childish) to question you did  not search or ask  for..

I gave up and rang my dealer, much easier and they had the answer immediately. I vote for pdf.

Agreed, a good dealer is the best manual on the planet

Pcd posted:

Agreed, a good dealer is the best manual on the planet

???? PCD,....I think it is better that basic information comes directly from the source,... in other words,..Naim Salisbury.

My experience is that different traders can have quite large differences in knowledge.
Some traders do not even have basic knowledge of how to "tune in" a Naim system.

Example,...a Linn and Naim trader here in Sweden,uses Linn K200 speaker cable when he demonstrates Naim's Atom and Nova.

This Linn K200 cable completely kills the musicality in Atom and Nova (yes we have compared),but this trader sells Linn too.
So he can maybe earning better at selling a Linn product,and therefore does not give Naim Atom,Nova the opportunity to perform optimally.

I have talked to Naim's distributor in Sweden about this,but they say that it is difficult to make demands on individual entrepreneurs.??

My comment: This was not a problem at Ivor Tiefenbrun's time (Linn),...and Göran Rudling's (distributor in Sweden earlier).
When the demands were placed on the merchants,if they did not meet the requirements...well then they lost their rights to sell Linn.... This was "rock hard requirements".

Quite rightly I think,these are expensive products so ask requirements,of course they should be given the opportunity to perform optimally.

???? Set Demands On Traders..!!!

But basic information should come from Naim in Salisbury.

/Peder ????

I do not disagree in principle....but the web faq is not good enough. It assumes a level of understanding of which for the Uniti series might not be there. When I got my Nova and Core I thought even over Spdif I could just select from Nova. No you have to play thru the App from the  Core into the digital channel. Nothing on the web.....dealer understood, and was very helpful.

When you have a great understanding of a product, it can be easy to overlook that someone straight out of the  box has to get this Hifi working......without the tech guru,s. Naim can do better, with perhaps with less effort than the fancy stuff for Uniti launch.

???? GAZZA wrote,.....but the web faq is not good enough.

◾I totally agree with you,.....the instructions should be written for "idiots",so that everyone understands.

Of all Naim's customers,we are not many who are on this forum,think what problems they must have.!!
In any case,we have the opportunity here to share information and knowledge with each other.

/Peder ????

Pcd posted:

Agreed, a good dealer is the best manual on the planet

No, a dealer is not a manual! Let's put it like that: a good manual makes you go to the dealer and buy the gear. And a bad dealer makes you reach for the manual. If you have one. Otherwise you are stuck as happened to many users of the new Uniti range. Then you go to the Naim forum and beg for a manual. And then they tell you that they will consider how to improve. Whereby the way to improve is more than obvious: just make the damned manuals available for download as everyone does!

Trevor Wilson posted:

Hi all

feedback noted and appreciated as always. Overall the impact and feedback to the online systems has been overwelmingly positive and considerable usage has been seen. The vast majority of feedback we received was that customers didn’t want huge manuals in boxes.  But continuous feedback is a good thing so we will consider how we can improve

Trevor

A downloadable PDF is all we are asking for, I sincerely hope that Naim will change it's policy on the subject because I for one will not be a repeat Naim customer without what I believe to be a basic requirement when spending thousands of hard earned pounds. My £200 Roberts Internet radio was supplied with a manual in the box to which I've refered to more than once since it's purchase.  Maybe Naim can learn something from Roberts regarding support. This is basic stuff!

I'm heartened by the response that my original post has generated and sincerely hope that Naim get back on track with their customer support which earned them the reputation they rightfully deserve and hopefully will keep it going forward.

nbpf posted:

sktn77a posted:

The manuals are pretty worthless at best.  Unfortunately, ...

What are manuals then at worst? Misleading, dangerous? I find good manuals very useful for deciding whether a device is worth buying or not. Thus, it was by reading the manual of the Uniti Serve that I realized that for me there was no point in buying it. At it was by reading the manual of the nDAC that I decided to buy one. I would not buy a device that comes with no manual as a matter of principle: if a company does not care I do not need to care too!  

By worthless, I mean uninformative.  Unless you already know how to use the equipment, the manuals won't help you.  This all started a couple of decades ago with the introduction of digital devices with use manuals written..........................  shall we say.........  "off shore".  Unfortunately, this level of indifference is now the norm.  In Naim's defense, their equipment is sufficiently expensive (with comensurate margins) that authorized dealers should make the manuals redundant.  Unfortunately, again, here in the US the general level of dealer support is abysmal.

I like your comment "if a company does not care I do not need to care too!"  Hopefully, Naim will carefully review the content and utility of their manuals and improve their usefulness to thos e of us who buy their equipment and are then pretty much "on our own".

sktn77a posted:

nbpf posted:

sktn77a posted:

The manuals are pretty worthless at best.  Unfortunately, ...

What are manuals then at worst? Misleading, dangerous? I find good manuals very useful for deciding whether a device is worth buying or not. Thus, it was by reading the manual of the Uniti Serve that I realized that for me there was no point in buying it. At it was by reading the manual of the nDAC that I decided to buy one. I would not buy a device that comes with no manual as a matter of principle: if a company does not care I do not need to care too!  

By worthless, I mean uninformative.  Unless you already know how to use the equipment, the manuals won't help you.  This all started a couple of decades ago with the introduction of digital devices with use manuals written..........................  shall we say.........  "off shore".  Unfortunately, this level of indifference is now the norm.  In Naim's defense, their equipment is sufficiently expensive (with comensurate margins) that authorized dealers should make the manuals redundant.  Unfortunately, again, here in the US the general level of dealer support is abysmal.

I like your comment "if a company does not care I do not need to care too!"  Hopefully, Naim will carefully review the content and utility of their manuals and improve their usefulness to thos e of us who buy their equipment and are then pretty much "on our own".

Bad manuals are of course worthless and I agree that the quality of many user guides has deteriorated over the last decades. Camera manuals are perhaps one of the most prominent examples. On the other hand, there are also examples of well-written manuals. As I mentioned, I typically do not need a manual once I have bought a device. But I find well-written user guides very useful to decide whether to buy a device or not. Thus, for instance, last year I bought an Oppo 203 after I read its user guide. The device is indeed very good. Naim's R&D is perhaps still very good but their marketing has become blunt and arrogant. Hence my decision not to buy new devices until they reintroduce detailed user guides.

This discussion reminds me of a visit that I've paid to my dealer many, many years ago ... there was an unopened box from a brand from which I can't recall the name. On the box there was something like the following statement printed:

"Before you try your way, try ours fist; read the manual" 

This has been an interesting thread to read because although the discussion, on the surface, is discussing manuals, I feel it shows a disconnect between the evolution of Naim's business and the very small minority of customers who use this forum.

An amplifier or CD player is an easy product to support; there is a defined function which is either performed by the device or there is a clear fault that requires hands-on intervention to fix.

The new products straddle traditional stereo devices and software like JRiver. The support effort is hugely increased and probably endless as standards and ancillary services evolve and change.

I am having to adapt to these realities by accepting that playing DSD files is a somewhat pointless ambition given the fundamental architecture of the Nova and I might as well just use dbPoweramp to fill an SD card with 96 kHz/24 bit FLAC files and present those to the Nova. 

I can see how this would make life difficult for the marketing folks at Naim. Withdrawing support altogether for DSD files would be a more honest approach. But how do you communicate that 'lack of functionality' in a simple marketing brochure and spin it as a positive? Maybe these sorts of considerations are influencing the decision to be coy about publishing detailed manuals? 

I have lost count of the number of times I have gone online to compare products through reading the instruction manuals to ascertain if the device meets the specifications I require. It also makes life much easier for the end user as you can have a good understanding before the product arrives and this can help to avoid costly mistakes and time. Let's face it, when a shiny new ND555 or similar arrives, you want to set it up with the minimum of fuss so that you can enjoy it to the max. Quick start PDFs are very useful, but no substitute for a PDF user guide.