What should stand my Naim CD player on, if I don't own a FRAIM? (a support on a shoestring budget)

So you have a ‘high end’ Naim CD player, SL cables and a shoestring budget for system supports? Perhaps it’s time to reconsider priorities. 

Although I agree with HH above, I guess many of us have been where you are. My compromise stand for my CDX2 was a wooden stand with the CDP mounted on Sorbothane. It was not bad. Yes the Fraim I use now is  better in terms of apparent resolution and balance, but the sorbothane on wood stand was an acceptable compromise.

Maybe he consider a CD5i as highend ?

Never mind, just start up with el-cheapo s/h Quadrasphire Q4, I've had mine for more than a decade housing several Naim hiearchies

My winter project could be experiement with adding Ikea bamboo cutting boards and small duts below, probably an investment below $100.

You could try Stillpoints. 3 should to it.

Douglas.

hungryhalibut posted:

So you have a ‘high end’ Naim CD player, SL cables and a shoestring budget for system supports? Perhaps it’s time to reconsider priorities. 

The OP may have no choice other than putting his hifi in a cupboard. In that case the answer is not really helpful. I have been in that situation myself - I now have my own music room/study, with a decent system support. There are a number of isolation platforms on the market, but I'm not sure how good they are with, I suppose, a CDX2, which may be a bit fussy about what it sits on.

I’ve used a set of 3 Symposium Acoustics Rollerblock Jr underneath my Onkyo CDP to great affect. Seems to bring the music into focus. Aircraft grade material and reasonably priced. I’ve conversed directly with the owner and they have a generous return policy. It’s a US based company.

A wooden block chopping board is worth a try, maybe on 3 ball nutters or domed nuts. It’s so cheap you might as well and if it’s no good a chopping board won’t go to waste. 

Something wobbly from Ikea, I forget the name and they probably keep changing it anyway but I think it’s sold as a bedside cabinet and you need an extra shlf or two, there’s bound to be something about the right size. It would replace the cupboard though.

vintageaxeman posted:

I have a large wooden cupboard into which all my hifi electronics go.

So my question is:

What to stand my high-end Naim CD player on if I don't own a proper FRAIM or similarly expensive stand?

It will rest on the wooden base of the cupboard.

Over the years I have seen torlyte, glass, MDF and a few other materials used to stand delicate electronics on.

So what should I use?

My initial thoughts are a bamboo chopping board on Foculpods? Or a glass panel on Naim Fraim ball bearings & the corresponding aluminium Naim components?

I need ideas that are on a shoestring budget, please.

Thank you, guys & guyesses.

I'm sorry but I totally don't understand this

I am trying to imagine a stereo system in a cupboard.  Doesn't really work.  If you have no choice but a cupboard why are you considering a stand.  How does putting your stereo in a chopping board actually work.  Why not just "put it on the tv?"  What is a Fraim ball bearing and how do you get them on a shoestring budget?

Ok so I bought a nice metal rack (iron?)...Black, nice, 4 shelves, like maybe 18 by 18 from an online store in Chicago (IL) that likely ships to UK.  It was $500 US.    Cannot remember the name but you can google it.  Is that shoestring?

???? Vintageaxeman,....Here comes the cheapest, and for the money absolutely best tip.!!
This is better than many,many much more expensive racks.

????Ikea Lacquer table,it costs in Sweden £15:-.❗

Ikea should well be where you live too, otherwise you can order it.

◾Background.....???????? 

It was the Swedish distributor of Linn and Naim,Göran Rudling...who in the beginning of the 80 century,tested this table as the best for Linn's LP12.
Göran introduced this IKEA lacquer table for Ivor Tiefenbrun (Linn's founder), Ivor agreed with...it was the best "rack" he had heard for his LP12.

After this,Linn had this IKEA lacquer table as a basis for its LP12 and electronics,in its listening room at the factory in Scotland during the whole of 80 and well into the 90 century.

All traders Linn and Naim,also had this IKEA lacquer table in their "Single Speaker" Listening room.
It was just as good for both Linn's and Naim's electronics.
The fact is that it works just as well today,for 1 year ago we had on our forum,a great test of various Hifi racks and also IKEA lacquer table.

Without going into that test too much (have written about it earlier),...so the rack that came in place 3,..Harmonihyllan,cost in the version we tested £3800:-.
There was IKEA lacquer table better for LP12, believe it or not...but so it was.

Today's IKEA lacquer table,is not exactly the same in design as in the 80 and 90 century,..but it was today's version we tested,...and as I wrote about here above.

◾Previous version: A little heavier wooden frame,plastic-leg,machine-threaded screw with impact-nut between tabletop and legs.

◾Today's version: Thinner wooden frame,legs in MDF wood-material,large wood-screws between table top and legs.

With this difference between the tables,you get to think a little differently,when you optimizes at the installation.
I have written about this on our forum,should take and translate it and copy over this to you in this thread later on,if you choose to go on this solution.
I can only say,there is nothing better if you do not want to pay an incredible amount of money,...and then we talk big money.! ????

BUT,...you have to modify your IKEA lacquer table.
So did we in the 80 century,and so do we even today.
This is the important secret that makes IKEA lacquer table so good.

You should cut out the bottom-disc,...see the attached link to an image.
It should be exactly as in the picture,in other words....rounded corners.
This is important,it distributes the forces in a different way than 90 degree corners.....do EXACT as you see in the picture.Then,that it is not really straight,it has no meaning.

-----???????????? IKEA Lacquer table,Picture ????????????-----

Table Ikea Lack.

https://i.imgur.com/uJJqWW1.jpg

---------------------------------------------------

/Peder???? 

OP, I think Peder is proposing an “IKEA Hack” of a lacquer table to meet your needs, well worth a shot.

To be clear,in Sweden the table is called......
◾ Ikea Lack,..That's why I wrote "Ikea Lacquer" in English.

The table may be called something else in other countries,but you see of course in the picture-link how it looks.
The table has been sold by Ikea for at least 35 years,so everyone knows enough about it.

The table in the picture is a bit dirty,because we had just sawn out of the bottom disc.

/Peder ????

vintageaxeman posted:

I have a large wooden cupboard into which all my hifi electronics go.

So my question is:

What to stand my high-end Naim CD player on if I don't own a proper FRAIM or similarly expensive stand?

It will rest on the wooden base of the cupboard.

Over the years I have seen torlyte, glass, MDF and a few other materials used to stand delicate electronics on.

So what should I use?

My initial thoughts are a bamboo chopping board on Foculpods? Or a glass panel on Naim Fraim ball bearings & the corresponding aluminium Naim components?

I need ideas that are on a shoestring budget, please.

Thank you, guys & guyesses.

Just put it wherever you can at the end of the day it won't make a difference.

Fascinating post from Peder. If I'm interpreting his conclusions correctly, this £15, crudely modified, Ikea coffee table beats a £3,800 hifi support system (at least for an LP12)?! If so, does this not say more about exotic, very expensive support systems rather than Ikea tables? As some may recall I demoed an Isoblue system at home when upgrading my source and amp, and heard my components on full Fraim at the dealers. When I placed my components into a bespoke built in, very solid, unit in my lounge I was unable to determine any deterioration in SQ.For what its worth, having tried , and bought, Still Point Ultra supports for my speakers (phenomenal improvement), I also tried them underneath my 272, 555PS and 250DR - no discernible improvement in SQ!

Funny old game, this hi-fi.

Steel is the worst material for a rack for a Naim system, Mana not withstanding, I couldn’t tell you why but it came as a great relief when I got rid of mine ( for Fraim Lite though). The system sounded a lot more coherent and the CDX2 was a particular beneficiary

The wood block chopping board idea came from a dealer as an alternative to all those audilphile platforms and better than a lot of them if you have to put your system and particularly a turntable on something like a sideboard or domestic shelf unit, the board is the type made up of blocks of around an inch square glued together and may even work better without the nuts under it but that can be experimented with.  The dealer in question had a Brinkmann Oasis on one which was sounding pretty good and there was no hint of feedback on this unsuspended deck.

A sheet of 10mm toughened glass cut to size with a set of Fraim cup and balls.

hungryhalibut posted:

So you have a ‘high end’ Naim CD player, SL cables and a shoestring budget for system supports? Perhaps it’s time to reconsider priorities. 

Hi Hal. Thanks for the reply. I had been looking for a Naim CD player for a long time, and eventually found the one I wanted.  Now retired, buying quality goods at bargain prices is all important, so mint used equipment is what I always try to get my filthy little hands on!

I don't have a specialised listening room. So for the usual domestic reasons, my equipment has to be located in a beautiful old wooden cupboard that we own. I know the shelves in it will resonate to some extent, so I'm trying to minimise the effect on my equipment. I have always been a DIY-er, which is why I asked the question on here. I have read a lot about DIY supports which have been successful, and have seen many commercial solutions which are just a piece of wood and four spikes/foculpods etc....A Fraim just won't go IN my cupboard, nor can I afford it. But I CAN afford a chopping board, piece of glass, modest feet or materials to make some, etc...  

I DON'T have SL cables.... that's another issue I have to sort out on a low budget, which is why I am trying to economise on the cost of the support. That's my current priority.

None of my equipment is Naim, so what works for me may not for anyone else.

For years I used Ikea Lack hack, adding a top shelf on home turned wooden cones (this does not work for an EAR amp, in time the weight punches the comes through board!).

Then I read about Ikea aptillig boards at the same time as an Atacama rack became available for pocket money.

It worked for me without any doubt and I have since used it for a number of friends mostly on top of cupboards or sideboards. I have usually gone for the solid coupling of cones or nuts, but over on the Scottish forum there is an interesting thread using Ikea silicone pot supports for "isolation".

As usual, everything is relative and personal budget and hearing may be the final arbiter.

Perol posted:

Maybe he consider a CD5i as highend ?

Never mind, just start up with el-cheapo s/h Quadrasphire Q4, I've had mine for more than a decade housing several Naim hiearchies

My winter project could be experiement with adding Ikea bamboo cutting boards and small duts below, probably an investment below $100.

 

Thanks, Perol. That is helpful. One vote for bamboo chopping boards then!

GregU posted:

vintageaxeman posted:

I have a large wooden cupboard into which all my hifi electronics go.

So my question is:

What to stand my high-end Naim CD player on if I don't own a proper FRAIM or similarly expensive stand?

It will rest on the wooden base of the cupboard.

Over the years I have seen torlyte, glass, MDF and a few other materials used to stand delicate electronics on.

So what should I use?

My initial thoughts are a bamboo chopping board on Foculpods? Or a glass panel on Naim Fraim ball bearings & the corresponding aluminium Naim components?

I need ideas that are on a shoestring budget, please.

Thank you, guys & guyesses.

I'm sorry but I totally don't understand this

 

I am trying to imagine a stereo system in a cupboard.  Doesn't really work.  If you have no choice but a cupboard why are you considering a stand.  How does putting your stereo in a chopping board actually work.  Why not just "put it on the tv?"  What is a Fraim ball bearing and how do you get them on a shoestring budget?

Ok so I bought a nice metal rack (iron?)...Black, nice, 4 shelves, like maybe 18 by 18 from an online store in Chicago (IL) that likely ships to UK.  It was $500 US.    Cannot remember the name but you can google it.  Is that shoestring?

My cupboard is a huge old Indian rosewood style TV cabinet, which is big enough for an old CRT style TV and video recorder, so it is very deep. It is around 6ft tall. I have fitted shelves in it. We also have 2 large coffee tables and a second store cabinet in the same style. It just fits in with our decor and style, even though in lots of ways I would like to have exposed hifi components, it's just not going to happen. But I know that the cabinet, like ANYTHING in the room, WILL resonate, so I want to isolate my CD player by standing it on a somewhat isolated support, within the cabinet. Get it now? :-)

Peder posted:

???? Vintageaxeman,....Here comes the cheapest, and for the money absolutely best tip.!!
This is better than many,many much more expensive racks.

????Ikea Lacquer table,it costs in Sweden £15:-.❗

Ikea should well be where you live too, otherwise you can order it.

◾Background.....???????? 

It was the Swedish distributor of Linn and Naim,Göran Rudling...who in the beginning of the 80 century,tested this table as the best for Linn's LP12.
Göran introduced this IKEA lacquer table for Ivor Tiefenbrun (Linn's founder), Ivor agreed with...it was the best "rack" he had heard for his LP12.

After this,Linn had this IKEA lacquer table as a basis for its LP12 and electronics,in its listening room at the factory in Scotland during the whole of 80 and well into the 90 century.

All traders Linn and Naim,also had this IKEA lacquer table in their "Single Speaker" Listening room.
It was just as good for both Linn's and Naim's electronics.
The fact is that it works just as well today,for 1 year ago we had on our forum,a great test of various Hifi racks and also IKEA lacquer table.

Without going into that test too much (have written about it earlier),...so the rack that came in place 3,..Harmonihyllan,cost in the version we tested £3800:-.
There was IKEA lacquer table better for LP12, believe it or not...but so it was.

Today's IKEA lacquer table,is not exactly the same in design as in the 80 and 90 century,..but it was today's version we tested,...and as I wrote about here above.

◾Previous version: A little heavier wooden frame,plastic-leg,machine-threaded screw with impact-nut between tabletop and legs.

◾Today's version: Thinner wooden frame,legs in MDF wood-material,large wood-screws between table top and legs.

With this difference between the tables,you get to think a little differently,when you optimizes at the installation.
I have written about this on our forum,should take and translate it and copy over this to you in this thread later on,if you choose to go on this solution.
I can only say,there is nothing better if you do not want to pay an incredible amount of money,...and then we talk big money.! ????

BUT,...you have to modify your IKEA lacquer table.
So did we in the 80 century,and so do we even today.
This is the important secret that makes IKEA lacquer table so good.

You should cut out the bottom-disc,...see the attached link to an image.
It should be exactly as in the picture,in other words....rounded corners.
This is important,it distributes the forces in a different way than 90 degree corners.....do EXACT as you see in the picture.Then,that it is not really straight,it has no meaning.

-----???????????? IKEA Lacquer table,Picture ????????????-----

Table Ikea Lack.

https://i.imgur.com/uJJqWW1.jpg

---------------------------------------------------

/Peder???? 

 

Thanks, Peder. That is also very helpful. :-)

Kevin Richardson posted:

vintageaxeman posted:

I have a large wooden cupboard into which all my hifi electronics go.

So my question is:

What to stand my high-end Naim CD player on if I don't own a proper FRAIM or similarly expensive stand?

It will rest on the wooden base of the cupboard.

Over the years I have seen torlyte, glass, MDF and a few other materials used to stand delicate electronics on.

So what should I use?

My initial thoughts are a bamboo chopping board on Foculpods? Or a glass panel on Naim Fraim ball bearings & the corresponding aluminium Naim components?

I need ideas that are on a shoestring budget, please.

Thank you, guys & guyesses.

Just put it wherever you can at the end of the day it won't make a difference.

???? Kevin Richardson,....Do you really mean this in all seriousness,what you really say here...it is that the installation has no meaning.
Do not know if it is language-difficulties,so that I do not understand your humor...In that case, I apologize.

But...If you mean this in all seriousness,please explain how you arrived at that conclusion.!
Even the person who has "liked" your post,may also be happy to explain the basis for their conclusion.

Ask of interest,not to be "ironic".

/Peder ????

yeti42 posted:

Something wobbly from Ikea, I forget the name and they probably keep changing it anyway but I think it’s sold as a bedside cabinet and you need an extra shlf or two, there’s bound to be something about the right size. It would replace the cupboard though.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that the thing referred to here isn't a Lack table, but a Corras (bedside table?).  They used to be quite well regarded as ultra-budget alternatives to proper racks.  And they require less fiddling with than the Lack efforts.

I don't think think they're made any more, having been more or less replaced by the Bestå AFAIK.  But you can pick them up on ebay sometimes for pence.  I bought two just to get an extra shelf, and the total was about a tenner.

These work nicely, and are s/h very cheap:

I'm not sure though if it makes a difference in SQ for my CD5i, but it looks terrific.

Vintageaxeman

Have you tried isolation platforms made by Audiophile Base, Avid or Hifi racks - they are between £150 and £200  and they seem to do the job. I'm sure there are other brands.

I wouldnt wish IKEA on my worst enemy.   I feel nothing but abject despair the second I enter the place .... ????