What's the most important component of any system, most say Source, some say Preamplifier, or even Speakers?

Neither matters imo.

Get a good source and amp, you'll hear improvements everytime you upgrade the speakers.

Get good speakers, you'll hear improvements everytime you upgrade the source and amp.

Personally i lean slightly toward source first. I would go the new NDX in your scenario.

If the source is rubbish, better amp and speakers just mean you will hear the shortcomings more clearly. Of course you aren't suggesting a rubbish source, but nevertheless the logic suggests to me that the source is the key component.

I too would start with an NDX2 if I were starting to build a new system now.

best

David

I'd say:

1. Speakers set the tone for the whole system and are the most personal. So these should be chosen first even if they are budgeted least.

2. Source first is still, without doubt, the most important as you cannot make up lost information. But over the years, source first doesn't mean allocating the most budget as digital sources have vastly improved.

3. Amplification is where the least amount of advances have been made and it still costs a lot to get a decent amplification chain that preserves the source signal and can command speakers. So even though not chosen first (speakers) or placed as the highest priority (source) usually needs the largest budget in a contemporary system.

Addressing the headline question, there have been a number of threads recently discussing ‘source first’ or not, with overall no clear majority view, but worth a search of the forum to read the differing views on sources, speakers, mullets etc. However, this question as phrased is rather different, with I think, no clear answer, at least unless you clarify in what regard you consider are asking the question. Most importanipt in getting the sound to have the character you want/like? I would say speakers. To get the “Naim sound”? Received wisdom suggests the preamp. Clarity and detail? Source. Driving the speakers effectively? Power amp. Getting music out of the system? Everything!

The record player. 

In my experience, when I used to take customer service calls at Naim, a lot of dissatisfaction came about from the scenario where a customer had heard a system playing some speakers they really liked, or read a great review of some speakers, had stretched their budget to buy them and then asked, what do I need to make them sound good.  The problem of course, was that the budget left little or no room for anything bar a source and amp that could never properly do them any justice.  And in fact, a lesser pair of speakers with better electronics up front would sound way more engaging. So, whatever you do, don't fix your sights on a pair of speakers first, using up all your budget in the process.

Apart from that, there is a hierarchy that goes source - pre-amp - power amp - speakers. Nothing further down the hierarchy can replace what is lost further up.  Keep that in mind and then go and hear some systems.  And remember, it's not about the "sound" but about the music that really matters; how the music communicates to you, and moves you.  You'll hear some impressive sounds, no doubt, but don't forget the music...

i am sure IB will agree, he is a »turntable africionados ».....

Bob the Builder posted:

The record player. 

Personally I think that when you get above a 'certain level' then source vs other components becomes interesting, and is also tied in with where you are heading. This is why having a good dealer is crucial.

I would always advise friends to listen to a top end system, mid level and then cheaper system. Do they hear a difference that is important to them?

If they KNOW they are going to heading to the expensive end then budget allocation and component selection will be different.

When I first got a job, and so some proper income, my first step was to buy an LP12, Ittock and Karma. I knew I would be upgrading the rest of my system once my bank account had recovered.

With all this in mind Meerkat .....I think your ambitions should inform what you do. For instance, the 272 has always seemed like a fine bit of kit to me, but if you know you will climb the pile then you may find it quickly becomes limiting, and you end up with redundant functionality.

M

French Rooster posted:

i am sure IB will agree, he is a »turntable africionados ».....

I assume this related to BtB’s input.

A ‘record player’ is of course a player that plays records, i.e recordings of music, and in that respect a music file on a NAS or other drive is a record, and the streamer (renderer+DAC) is a record player...   (albeit a better one than a vinyl disc player, assuming the record producer has applied the same care to maximise the sound quality of the recording/mastering).

However if the question is what is most important to get right (for the listener) I would focus on getting speakers that create the right balance of sound before worrying about minutiae of detail, as the speakers characterise the system more than any other single component (and that doesn’t mean other components, aren’t also important). As I observed in my earlier post, there have been several threads even in just the past month or two discussing the merits or otherwise of ‘source first’, ‘mullets’ etc:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...-love-and-ignorance?

https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...f-the-naim-forum-is?

https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...source-amps-speaker?

A good  balance is the most important thing.

Power leads matter the most Only joking. To me it was amplification/pre-amplification that has always been most important, then speakers. In today's digital era source is the thing of the least importance, unless one still plays records/tapes - then yes, solid decks before the rest.

Agree with what Richard has mentioned "Apart from that, there is a hierarchy that goes source - pre-amp - power amp - speakers. Nothing further down the hierarchy can replace what is lost further up.  Keep that in mind and then go and hear some systems.  And remember, it's not about the "sound" but about the music that really matters; how the music communicates to you, and moves you.  You'll hear some impressive sounds, no doubt, but don't forget the music..."

And would add the element of balance. And also not forgetting the other elements (room acoustic, power, rack).

Dazan posted:

Power leads matter the most Only joking. .

Actually you’re right - there’ll be no sound if you have no power leads

(unless battery operated)

Richard Dane posted:

So, whatever you do, don't fix your sights on a pair of speakers first, using up all your budget in the process.

And remember, it's not about the "sound" but about the music that really matters; how the music communicates to you, and moves you.  You'll hear some impressive sounds, no doubt, but don't forget the music...

Cheers Richard...I still have my Spendor A5s, as they were part of my old Naim system, which I will keep for the time being. Having said that, I do have my eye on a pair of Kudos, PMC and ATCs.

272/555ps/300 = ~£19k, NDX2/282/Hi/250 + ~£15k, an XPS will even the score or another £3k over an xps will = an 555ps.  The 555ps boosts the source in the 272 but not as far as it will boost an NDX(2) but possibly further than an NDX under its own steam, that will be for you to audition as not many have heard the NDX2 yet. Do you want to leave upgrade potential? the 272/555ps is a dead end without buying a streamer,pre and its ps to replace it whereas the NDX/282/Hi/250 leaves lots of temptation (and potential).

I find dealers are very good at offering that little extra temptation, like estate agents they treat your stated budget limit as a target to exceed.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Addressing the headline question, there have been a number of threads recently discussing ‘source first’ or not, with overall no clear majority view, but worth a search of the forum to read the differing views on sources, speakers, mullets etc. However, this question as phrased is rather different, with I think, no clear answer, at least unless you clarify in what regard you consider are asking the question. Most importanipt in getting the sound to have the character you want/like? I would say speakers. To get the “Naim sound”? Received wisdom suggests the preamp. Clarity and detail? Source. Driving the speakers effectively? Power amp. Getting music out of the system? Everything!

 

I think 'important' was my poor choice of words, as it's tad ambiguous. 

I agree, getting the music out of the system...Everything.

Bob the Builder posted:

The record player. 

Source->PreAmp->Amp->Speakers.

Everything in the chain amplifies then conveys the source signal. Given a good source, you'll have a good output.

Mr Underhill posted:

For instance, the 272 has always seemed like a fine bit of kit to me, but if you know you will climb the pile then you may find it quickly becomes limiting, and you end up with redundant functionality.

M

That is what I kinda thought. I will never climb as high as the S1 or 500 series though (Says he! )

Naim actually recommends that the 272 be paired with the 300 DR and 555 DR power supply. The 300 DR is quite high up, and the 500 DR is top end. I have absolutely no idea, but is that not considered as unbalanced? 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Dazan posted:

Power leads matter the most Only joking. .

Actually you’re right - there’ll be no sound if you have no power leads

(unless battery operated)

Dan.S posted:

Source->PreAmp->Amp->Speakers.

Everything in the chain amplifies then conveys the source signal. Given a good source, you'll have a good output.

Oh! didn't seem to work when I put my JR149's on the end of my CD555/552/500............

.......I preferred my CDS3/52/135's/Isobariks.......

Funny how different people have different preferences !

Meerkat posted:

Mr Underhill posted:

For instance, the 272 has always seemed like a fine bit of kit to me, but if you know you will climb the pile then you may find it quickly becomes limiting, and you end up with redundant functionality.

M

That is what I kinda thought. I will never climb as high as the S1 or 500 series though (Says he! )

Naim actually recommends that the 272 be paired with the 300 DR and 555 DR power supply. The 300 DR is quite high up, and the 500 DR is top end. I have absolutely no idea, but is that not considered as unbalanced? 

No, it does not. The ideal partner Naim suggests for 272 is the 250DR. 300DR is suggested for 282.

yeti42 posted:

I find dealers are very good at offering that little extra temptation, like estate agents they treat your stated budget limit as a target to exceed.

How true!

Richard Dane posted:

And remember, it's not about the "sound" but about the music that really matters; how the music communicates to you, and moves you.  You'll hear some impressive sounds, no doubt, but don't forget the music...

I am very shocked that such threads like this,are still showing up now and then here at Naim's forum.
Naim and Linn were the big companies in "Flat Earth",and Linn was the company that launched "Source First" hardest.

But Ivor (Linn) and Julian (Naim),were in complete agreement on this with Source First.!!

Here,the traders really have failed to bring forward their message,and by demonstration show that "Source First" applies,.....and will always apply.
This is a priority for music and not sound.

In Sweden,the traders were very "hard core" in the 80 and 90's and a bit into the 2000 century.
They taught their customers to really install their systems.
And no one in Sweden doubted "Source First" if you had a Linn or Naim system.

Know that Ivor Tiefenbrun (Linn),often told Göran Rudling (distributor) at the time.....that he thought we in Sweden was the best at System-optimization and installation at that time in Europe.
This was also something that Göran worked hard with against his dealers and customers.

Source First and Tune-Dem,as installation tools were,....and is what really applies,if you are going to have the maximum musical performance out of your music system.
This is also very easy to demonstrate if you have knowledge......So....

????Think on what Richard Dane writes above, this applies and has always shrilled.
If,...you listen to music instead of sound.

Ps: Unfortunately,Linn has market-adapted in recent years and deviated from its own "Source First".
They don't think as much on "Attention To Detail" anymore.
This has created two camps in Sweden,where the group that is "Attention To Detail" with its music system has left Linn.

This group is considerably larger than the remaining ones,in Linn's new way of thinking.
Many people have gone over to Naim instead,...I am one of them.

Some thoughts in a far too warm Sweden ????.

/Peder ????