Ethernet Connection

Mike-B posted:

fatcat posted:

Why not use what Naim use.  

........   salient point.  When at Naim HQ I had a peek behind the boxes in the listening/demo room & noted a vin ordinaire ethernet connecting the streamer(s).

Exactly ........................

I think I am right in saying Naim used Chord Shawline (red) ethernet cable at the last Bristol Show. For those who were there, did anyone notice what they were using at the demo at the last Factory visit?

nigelb posted:

I think I am right in saying Naim used Chord Shawline (red) ethernet cable at the last Bristol Show. For those who were there, did anyone notice what they were using at the demo at the last Factory visit?

.......   as i said in my previous post,  vin ordinaire,,   it was grey with no obvious features such as RJ45 plug.   

Quite, with the latest streamer designs, they have adopted low voltage differential network interface connections as well increased decoupling to help mitigate the effects of imbalances in Ethernet cabling and Ethernet physical noise etc. Therefore cabling will have less effect, albeit it will need to be compliant, and if one does hear differences on the newer equipment  it might well be with interactions with other equipment or a product of your physical installation rather than from your Naim streamer.

I have my Nova and Core in different rooms, connected through a wired Cat6 wired network. I had to use a 1GB switch in one room for the Core and an Apple Time Capscule swithch for the Nova. There also a Cute2 on the switch with the Core along with two smart TVs and 2 4K Apple TVs (1 pair on each switch). Works flawlessly.

I am still surprised Naim or Vertere have not branded a Naim ethernet ... at least the beast ND555 as some new users call it

Because I have said, Naim have told me in various discussions that they  have focused instead to reduce the dependency on the EM interference from Ethernet coupling in their latest products, so renders so called audiophile network cables largely irrelevant. When and if the Statement streamer comes along... we may well see fibre based Ethernet, or at least SFP Ethernet interfaces to give the user the choice.  There was a twinkle in one or two eyes when I posed that...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Because I have said, Naim have focused instead to reduce the dependency on the EM interference from Ethernet coupling in their latest products, so renders so called audiophile network cables largely irrelevant. When and if the Statement streamer comes along... we may well see fibre based Ethernet.

Simon trying to understand what you are trying to express. Are you indicating they for instance moving up from an Audioquest Vodka to a Chord Music cable wouldn’t lead to a significant uplift when one had a ND555. Because the last time I heard that swap on a Linn Streamer my jaw was dropping ?

nigelb posted:

I think I am right in saying Naim used Chord Shawline (red) ethernet cable at the last Bristol Show. For those who were there, did anyone notice what they were using at the demo at the last Factory visit?

Hello NigelB, I recently purchased a Chord Shawline to replace a AudioQuest Forrest. Very positive results especially on better placing and positioning of voices & instruments. The Shawline is a very good cable that is still in the "affordable" range. Recommended !

Bert Schurink posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Because I have said, Naim have focused instead to reduce the dependency on the EM interference from Ethernet coupling in their latest products, so renders so called audiophile network cables largely irrelevant. When and if the Statement streamer comes along... we may well see fibre based Ethernet.

Simon trying to understand what you are trying to express. Are you indicating they for instance moving up from an Audioquest Vodka to a Chord Music cable wouldn’t lead to a significant uplift when one had a ND555. Because the last time I heard that swap on a Linn Streamer my jaw was dropping ?

That was apparently one of the design principles of the ND555 yes, ie reduce the effects of Ethernet noise modulation... and they use a new approach internally to help that. Obviously the proof is in the eating, and as Mike said at a show case demonstration of the ND555 at Naim it appeared standard cabling was used... perhaps to prove a point?

Also remember Naim use a lot of TI technology, and that company has developed some interesting  interface technology and engineering white papers to mitigate the variation in Ethernet cable coupling in terms of noise and ground plane modulation to the host device ... now it’s true I don’t know specifically whether Naim use this technology.

However If major differences are heard now I suspect it’s more likely from indirect side effects elsewhere rather than from the direct connection. On the ND555 it’s easy of course, because the app buffer spool is now so large, feed a track in via UPnP let it play and disconnect the Ethernet lead and let the track continue to play out.. what do you notice.....

Thank you all, for the replies

So from the replies, I should try Melco or Meicord cables to connect switch to Nova and Core. However to connect router to switch, not need to spend as much money on Ethernet cable, due to no SQ gain. Can anyone recommend a good cable for this connection. The Cisco 2960 does not work for me due to connections at front and back. I currently use TP-Link TL-SG1008D. Is there another switch available that would meet criteria and give a positive SQ gain over my TP -Link switch.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

..............   and as Mike said at a show case demonstration of the ND555 at Naim it appeared standard cabling was used... perhaps to prove a point?

Not too sure on proving a point,  they had the same/similar cable when I visited in 2016 & were streaming from an NDX. 

Man with no Naim posted:

Thank you all, for the replies

So from the replies, I should try Melco or Meicord cables to connect switch to Nova and Core. However to connect router to switch, not need to spend as much money on Ethernet cable, due to no SQ gain. Can anyone recommend a good cable for this connection. The Cisco 2960 does not work for me due to connections at front and back. I currently use TP-Link TL-SG1008D. Is there another switch available that would meet criteria and give a positive SQ gain over my TP -Link switch.

I use a Cat-6 cable from Lindy (www.store) & before we all get excited about Lindy,  the only reason I bought from them was because I wanted other items & just added the cable to that order.  The one I have has multi strand wires (not solid core) & I bought it specifically to help with bends enroute from router to switch - the Meicord is not so bendy.    There are flat Cat-6 cables that are even more bendy,  I use one I bought from Amazon on my TV.   

I'm not sure about an SQ gain with consumer grade unmanaged switches;  however when I swapped out my Netgear GS105 for a Cisco SG110D I did note it does perform differently,  but SQ gain ???,   nothing I could hear.

Mike-B posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

..............   and as Mike said at a show case demonstration of the ND555 at Naim it appeared standard cabling was used... perhaps to prove a point?

Not too sure on proving a point,  they had the same/similar cable when I visited in 2016 & were streaming from an NDX. 

well that could be proving another point then 

Mike-B posted:

nigelb posted:

I think I am right in saying Naim used Chord Shawline (red) ethernet cable at the last Bristol Show. For those who were there, did anyone notice what they were using at the demo at the last Factory visit?

.......   as i said in my previous post,  vin ordinaire,,   it was grey with no obvious features such as RJ45 plug.   

Thanks Mike. I was just wondering if anyone identified specifically what the 'vin ordinarie' was.

It could well have been a cable manufactured by a company like Linan Chuangxiang Cable Co., Ltd. bought wholesale and then used by a structured cable provider, or made into a patch lead product by a company like Belden or LINDY

Man with no Naim posted:

Thank you all, for the replies

So from the replies, I should try Melco or Meicord cables to connect switch to Nova and Core. However to connect router to switch, not need to spend as much money on Ethernet cable, due to no SQ gain. Can anyone recommend a good cable for this connection. The Cisco 2960 does not work for me due to connections at front and back. I currently use TP-Link TL-SG1008D. Is there another switch available that would meet criteria and give a positive SQ gain over my TP -Link switch.

Until recently I always sided with the last 1m, i.e. to the streamer is the most important, but I found each stage benefited noticeably.

I thought at the Bristol Show Naim used the Chord Shawline, but recall someone saying when the asked it was what they had.

I personally think the Miecord is better due to no shielding, but twisting to achieve the same.

Has anyone compared the Miecord and Melco Ethernet cables? Is so, could you try to explain the differences.

Man with no Naim posted:

Hello,

...

can anyone recommend a superior SQ Ethernet cable. I would be looking for 3m length and willing to pay up to or around the £100 point. Thank you, for any replies.

it will be easy for the Op to take a decision 

French Rooster posted:

it will be easy for the Op to take a decision 

Yes, just get a load of different 'generic' cables to try against the 'audiophile' cables - I tried two different types of generic cable, and then a third.

They all sounded different: in come cases markedly in some cases subtly.  I still stayed with one of the generic cables - in my system it sounded best.

Huge posted:

French Rooster posted:

it will be easy for the Op to take a decision 

Yes, just get a load of different 'generic' cables to try against the 'audiophile' cables - I tried two different types of generic cable, and then a third.

They all sounded different: in come cases markedly in some cases subtly.  I still stayed with one of the generic cables - in my system it sounded best.

i know Miss Huge, respect your point of view and you have pointed it several times.  Just for me things are different, for reasons i ignore.   But vs 3 different cheap cables i tried, or even the good sounding meicord, the audioquest diamond is well ahead for sounding quality, especially for the fluidity and naturalness of the sound.

But i can’t predict how it will be in the op system, just think he can try if possible.

Indeed Mr Rooster, that's all I advocate, compare a number of cheap generic cables to some 'audiophile' cables and see which one wins; sometimes it will be one of the audiophile cables, sometimes it'll be a generic cable.  One should try all the cables one already has, you might be surprised.

In your case it was the audiophile cable that won the comparison; in my case it was a cheap generic cable; for anyone else... well who knows, you just have to test them and see which one(s) you like.