ND555/NDX2

hungryhalibut posted:

xcentric posted:

 . If it were it would have a big round knob on the left hand section of the front panel. 

You'll never know if they decide to implement a Nova alike volume on their next preamp

We've been here 101 times already on the forum. While many use a single source, you will never escape some inherent design compromises by having the more delicate preamp stages in the same box as the digital circuits. 

How high up in the classic range Naim want to go with compromise is an open question. The 272 was cleary a magic product at its price point but given the limitations of component merging, they may not feel a 372 is appropriate classic range quality. 

There is also the tendancy for single source users to look at their 282 or whatever and bemoan the wasted cost on the other 5 inputs. But the cost of the unit is not linear. Once the cost of R&D and the basic design and implementation of a single signal path is out of the way, adding additional inputs doesn't add significantly to the unit. They could probably trim a preamp down to 3 inputs but the cost to manufacture wouldn't change much. Yet 100% of customers would expect it to be cheaper and 20% of customers who use more inputs would be alienated. Very little benefit really for such a design change.

So what is the output impedance of the ND555?

Bailyhill

No idea, but the 552 input impedence is 47kΩ and it will be designed to feed into that. This happens to also be the input impedence of your Krell whereas that of a NAP500 is 15kΩ so you might be lucky and be able to feed it using the volume control on the 555. Try it at your dealer against the best Naim pre he can lay his hands on with the 555 output set to fixed if you wan’t a clue as to what you’ll be missing running it direct.

Most all Naim units, 252, NDS, 552, 282 and NDX are all <20 ohms.  Funny thing, I cannot find the value on the 555 but its probably similar.  I will try it when

I get my 555.  Should be interesting.

Bailyhill

The one reason I'm not splitting my 272 into a 282 and a ND5XS2 is the ancient 282 look & feel. Not to mention the analogue volume knob, the useless (for me) double controls and myriad of inputs.

I would love a 372 with a 282-level-pre-section and the dac+streamer from ND5XS2. And only powered by an external XPS. They could ditch the volume pot as well and go UnitiLite style. 

Naim needs updated preamps. And a 372!

DaveBk posted:

The preamp is more than just a volume control, it also acts a a buffer to match the input and output impedances. Having just checked, the input impedance on a 552 pre is 47K whereas the 300 power amp is 18K. Without the pre in place, the source component is driving a lower impedance input than it is designed to. This will have a negative impact on sound quality imo.

indeed that is what I heard when I tested my Chord Dave into my NAP 250DR.

It only took a few seconds and I loved my 282 even more when I put it back.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet, Naim knows how their amps work, and to get the best performance, in my experience, I learnt to trust Naim.

This weekend we try a ndx2 directly to a Nap250. Whit special cable in the Netherlands by Lexicom Multimedia. Also a highly respected reviewer 'Rene van Es' will be present. Then we can say why every one should use a good pre amp. Allready tested the NDX2 on a Supernait 2. It is a spectecular streamer Whit a unbelieveble sound. Pardon my Englisch ;-)

Back in the original topic for a moment. I have got variable to work just fine. Worse than fixed so not for me. Tried hybrid, but nothing happens, so not sure what hybrid is meant to achieve or it could just be me missing something obvious. 

I now have my NDX2 but cannot find the variable volume out . I am keen to try it as it would let the roon app control volume although if that is at the cost of SQ then I will cope without it . Can anyone help in terms of access to the options show above please

Roon recognizes the ND555 as only offering "fixed" volume control.  I guess that's because it only has a fixed volume control . . . .

There’s a setting in the app called volume mode where you can select one of three modes. Hybrid is meant to apply variable to streaming services I think but not rips. I’ve not bothered to try it as nothing has been over hot so far, though, I haven’t dug very deep into streaming yet.

So my problem is I can’t find the settings in the app ? 

Terrysmi posted:

So my problem is I can’t find the settings in the app ? 

If system automation is enabled the option disappears in the app.

Terrysmi posted:

I now have my NDX2 but cannot find the variable volume out . I am keen to try it as it would let the roon app control volume although if that is at the cost of SQ then I will cope without it . Can anyone help in terms of access to the options show above please

Naim said that the variable volume was only added to the ND555 in order to comply with Apple Airplay certification requirements, and that they recommend it be disabled for optimum sound quality, so the same might also apply to the NDX2. If you are using system automation, that's a different thing altogether, but I don't know if Roon can cope with it?

ChrisSU posted:

Terrysmi posted:

I now have my NDX2 but cannot find the variable volume out . I am keen to try it as it would let the roon app control volume although if that is at the cost of SQ then I will cope without it . Can anyone help in terms of access to the options show above please

Naim said that the variable volume was only added to the ND555 in order to comply with Apple Airplay certification requirements, and that they recommend it be disabled for optimum sound quality, so the same might also apply to the NDX2. If you are using system automation, that's a different thing altogether, but I don't know if Roon can cope with it?

Roon cannot; no volume control via Roon directly.  There are work-arounds with using a Harmony remote hub, but I've not gone down that rabbit hole myself.

Bart posted:

ChrisSU posted:

Terrysmi posted:

I now have my NDX2 but cannot find the variable volume out . I am keen to try it as it would let the roon app control volume although if that is at the cost of SQ then I will cope without it . Can anyone help in terms of access to the options show above please

Naim said that the variable volume was only added to the ND555 in order to comply with Apple Airplay certification requirements, and that they recommend it be disabled for optimum sound quality, so the same might also apply to the NDX2. If you are using system automation, that's a different thing altogether, but I don't know if Roon can cope with it?

Roon cannot; no volume control via Roon directly.  There are work-arounds with using a Harmony remote hub, but I've not gone down that rabbit hole myself.

Thanks for confirming that, I was pretty sure it would be the case, but only have NDX and Atom. I’m guessing that if you use Roon via Airplay (or just Airplay) you would get volume control, because Apple insist on it, but again, not system automation, just the built in digital control. 

Compared ndx2 alone with  Nds/xps .Cdx2 mutch bettet and half price

Dan

Ndx2 ofcorse Sorry

Dan, would mind kindly enlightening me in which ways the bare NDX2 is superior to the NDS/XPS?

nigelb posted:

Dan, would mind kindly enlightening me in which ways the bare NDX2 is superior to the NDS/XPS?

All Tests so far talk about a small superiority of the NDS over the NDX2 - so I am also puzzled with the statement...

nigelb posted:

Dan, would mind kindly enlightening me in which ways the bare NDX2 is superior to the NDS/XPS?

Good evening

in my opinion so much easier to listen without losing in prat or anything else it should be intressing to compare with nds and two 555ps

Dan

Thats it. I'm getting an ND5XS2 asap.

Hi!

I thought that I could chimney in to the discussion regarding NDX2 vs NDS.

Last week I attended a 2h demo at a dealer here in Sweden where the Swedish distributor presented the new NDX2. It was an interesting and a bit surprising (to me) event. I attended the late session so there were only 5 attendees. The earlier session were a lot more crowded and noisy (I suspect) so the late session was good in order actually hear what the NDX2 was capable of.

The system used was a system that a “typical NDX2 buyer” could have: NAC282 + NAPSC + HiCap DR + NAP250 DR. Speakers was Neat SX5i and cables were “medium level” from Chord. Music played was “normal music” played via Tidal. No Hi-res or “audiophile music”, just normal music ranged from Beyoncé to Blues Company.

First test was NDX vs NDX2. No surprise here. NDX2 was better in all areas. The difference was not small.

The second test was NDX2 vs NDS + XPS DR. After reading here on the forum I expected NDS to come out as a winner (since NDX2 was using its internal PS) but here was the surprise for me. I preferred NDX2 without hesitation. The difference was obviously smaller compared to “test 1” but it was still clear that NDX2 gave better sq (to me at least). All attendees agreed that NDX2 was superior to NDS + XPS DR. Things that I registered first was lower noise floor, better presence, bigger soundstage to name a few. It was easier “to hear the music” if that make sense?

Test 3 was NDX2 vs NDX2 + XPS DR. No surprise here either, the NDX2 sounds better with an external PS.

After the demo I was mainly thinking about “test 2”. My conclusions is that the new streaming platform seems to be a big step forward. That’s good news! NDX2 also seems to be a really good streamer that will give great joy to a lot of users. I also suspect that it will be quite tricky to sell a used NDS. At least to people that have heard a demo of NDX2 vs NDS

The demo was only 2h. It was done in a room and in a system that I’m not familiar with. Although the result was quite clear to me during the demo I recommend people to do the demo themselves and if possible try out a NDX2 at home in their own system. The distributor ensured me that the difference would be bigger in a more revealing system and if listening to NDX2 over a longer time period you would also appreciate the difference even more.

The question that remains unanswered to me is whether the new streaming platform is better in handling Tidal playback. Would the result have been the same if music would have been played from a UnitiCore or a Melco NAS? Was Tidal chosen for the demo to give the NDX2 an advantage over the NDS? I don’t know…

When I asked I was told that Tidal was used in order to show how easy it is to play music on a Naim streamer and that you can get started quickly without ripping all your CDs. Ripping and storing all CDs can come as a “step 2”, not to scare away people from streaming. I believe this explanation but have not heard NDX2 vs NDS with any other format than Tidal, just to be clear...

/Marcus

Thanks Marcus

very informative

M