ND555/NDX2

Interesting, and I wonder if the differences would have been the same if the demo had been done with a local server rather than Tidal. I found Tidal to be consistently inferior to CD rips on NDX when it was first released, but I think it sounds quite a bit better on more recent NDX firmware. I would want to do that demo too, before committing to an upgrade. 

You beat me to that punch Chris.   OK it may well have served the purpose of demo'ing the SQ differences,  but it raises more questions such as are those effects due to the new internet over ethernet connectivity of the new platform & does that same effect/difference carry forward into local ethernet NAS streaming.   Whatever,  if/when I do move to the new platform,  & no that will not happen until its firm/software maturity has evolved for at least another 12 months,  then I will be insisting on a demo that included local NAS streaming & with low & high def PCM & DSD.  

Yes, a Tidal only test could be misleading. I would suggest that if the dealer was keen to demonstrate the full potential of the NDX2 they would have included a locally streamed UPnP source for music as this is clearly superior to Tidal, well to these ears anyway. They could have still played a Tidal stream also to show how easy it is to get going with a streamer, but maybe that would not give the comparative outcome they were looking for.

Tidal is simply not a good way of demonstrating the ultimate capability of a streaming source. I accept that the NDX2 pushes the NDS hard and might pull ahead on Tidal due to the advances made in the streaming architecture and new software, which I am sure makes external streaming sound better. But that is only part (and a small part for me) of a streamer's capability.

Interesting feedback though Marcus, all the same.

nigelb posted:

Tidal is simply not a good way of demonstrating the ultimate capability of a streaming source.

I would say this is system dependent rather than an absolute truth. In my system, Tidal is indistinguishable from rips. It could be argued that my system is insuficiently revealing but others on this forum with more expensive systems have reported similar findings. Reportedly there are some albums on Tidal which are inferior masters/versions (though I have yet to personally encounter this) but there is no intrinsic reason why Tidal should be inferior to rips given the same recording in the same format.

S-i-S has posted reasons why the new streaming platform is a step forward from the legacy one in handling Tidal (though I could hear precious little difference even when I had a Superuniti). Certainly the reports of drop outs when using Tidal have declined in recent times - although again this was a puzzle to me as with my rural 6mbps broadband I never had a dropout from Tidal, ever.

Radio Paradise however was very prone to drop outs, particularly around tea time. This has ceased now I have a Nova so something is working!

nigelb posted:

Yes, a Tidal only test could be misleading. I would suggest that if the dealer was keen to demonstrate the full potential of the NDX2 they would have included a locally streamed UPnP source for music as this is clearly superior to Tidal, well to these ears anyway. They could have still played a Tidal stream also to show how easy it is to get going with a streamer, but maybe that would not give the comparative outcome they were looking for.

Tidal is simply not a good way of demonstrating the ultimate capability of a streaming source. I accept that the NDX2 pushes the NDS hard and might pull ahead on Tidal due to the advances made in the streaming architecture and new software, which I am sure makes external streaming sound better. But that is only part (and a small part for me) of a streamer's capability.

Interesting feedback though Marcus, all the same.

I am betting that with better source material than TIDAL, that the differences are even bigger.  My reasoning is that the newer platform should be able to do more with HiRez material than the older platform, just based on maturity of the technology. 

I know all the owners of NDS's want the opposite, but we will see. 

Bailyhill

Bailyhill posted:

nigelb posted:

Yes, a Tidal only test could be misleading. I would suggest that if the dealer was keen to demonstrate the full potential of the NDX2 they would have included a locally streamed UPnP source for music as this is clearly superior to Tidal, well to these ears anyway. They could have still played a Tidal stream also to show how easy it is to get going with a streamer, but maybe that would not give the comparative outcome they were looking for.

Tidal is simply not a good way of demonstrating the ultimate capability of a streaming source. I accept that the NDX2 pushes the NDS hard and might pull ahead on Tidal due to the advances made in the streaming architecture and new software, which I am sure makes external streaming sound better. But that is only part (and a small part for me) of a streamer's capability.

Interesting feedback though Marcus, all the same.

I am betting that with better source material than TIDAL, that the differences are even bigger.  My reasoning is that the newer platform should be able to do more with HiRez material than the older platform, just based on maturity of the technology. 

I know all the owners of NDS's want the opposite, but we will see. 

Bailyhill

As a NDS owner, I don't really care if the NDX2 is about the same, better or worse than the NDS. The only streamer I am interested in is the ND555.

I do however feel that the new streamers are probably better at handling external streams (e.g Tidal), due primarily to the new platform, so to test the NDS against the NDX2 on only that basis is misleading. There are a number of design features that would suggest that the NDS is a match for the NDX2 on locally served material via UPnP (for example the floating chassis on the NDS) and both products still share many of the same components.

In the main, I still maintain that locally served files sound better than Tidal on my NDS although I accept that Tidal my hold a better master of an album I own and serve locally. Generally speaking, this is not the case and I use Tidal primarily for sampling music and locally served UPnP rips for serious listening. I would imagine the same would prevail with the new streamers. Maybe those new ND555 owners who have Tidal would like to comment.

I would suggest however that the reason there is no NDS2 is that the NDX2 is so close to the NDS, that there is now no room for an NDS2 in the hierarchy, indeed that has been mentioned by Naim staff at the odd demo.

Will try later Nigel for a definitive answer.......but my gut feeling without a true back to back is that the Tidal portrayal is a bit “softer” lacks some of the speed of attack with percussion etc will get back to you

Gazza, I would be interested to hear your findings, but accept that often difference are subtle and are not therefore always definitive.

BTW Gazza, like me you only have a crappy 252, so how are you going to hear a difference.

Luvly down here in the gutter with you Nigel and our 252,s. The new Elvis Costello cd “Look Now” has turned up..the 2 cd version. I know Tidal has this cd as I played it before buying, and as it was only released a few days ago they should the same version, I would hope. 

nigelb posted:

Gazza, I would be interested to hear your findings, but accept that often difference are subtle and are not therefore always definitive.

BTW Gazza, like me you only have a crappy 252, so how are you going to hear a difference.

Nigel , I just tried the new Elvis Costello ripped on Uniti Core played via upnp, and then on Tidal, and then back to the Core on a few tracks. Really if there is a difference too subtle for my ears. As above pretty sure they must be the same version as it is so new the Dbase providers don,t have the artwork or correct metadata, yet. Hope this helps, will try a few others this evening.

Gazza posted:

Luvly down here in the gutter with you Nigel and our 252,s. The new Elvis Costello cd “Look Now” has turned up..the 2 cd version. I know Tidal has this cd as I played it before buying, and as it was only released a few days ago they should the same version, I would hope. 

If you guys are in the gutter with a 252, where does that put me, who does not have even a 252?  Lets not forget the underlying thing about Naim and this Forum, we are all music lovers and all have the best equipment we can afford within our circumstances. 

My circumstances are changing for the better, but I never forget humble beginnings in life and audio.  Love the posts here.  My ND555/PS555 is scheduled later this month.  Very excited.

Bailyill

It was only me and Nigel having a joke.....many years ago when I had a Nac62; I always wanted a 52 but never got there. Now lucky to have the 252, it’s a lovely preamp. As for the ND555 hope it turns up quickly, they do seem to be beating their delivery times some of us were given????

Gazza posted:

nigelb posted:

Gazza, I would be interested to hear your findings, but accept that often difference are subtle and are not therefore always definitive.

BTW Gazza, like me you only have a crappy 252, so how are you going to hear a difference.

Nigel , I just tried the new Elvis Costello ripped on Uniti Core played via upnp, and then on Tidal, and then back to the Core on a few tracks. Really if there is a difference too subtle for my ears. As above pretty sure they must be the same version as it is so new the Dbase providers don,t have the artwork or correct metadata, yet. Hope this helps, will try a few others this evening.

Why not just download the high res from Qobuz? It’s cheaper and sounds better. 

HH I paid £12.99 for cd, Qobuz was £22.49 for high res , £15,99 for cd quality as I am not a member. Will decide after my free tidal trial if I will try another streaming company?