New Nas

StoogeMoe posted:

  All my music is in FLAC so no need to transcode.

The reason for transcoding FLAC to WAV is to take advantage of FLAC compression and FLAC's more widely-supported metadata tagging whilst simultaneously benefiting from the sonic advantage of using WAV with Naim streamers as a result of the lower overhead involved in WAV decoding vs. FLAC. To get these benefits you need a media server that supports gapless transcoding -- unless you enjoy annoying breaks between gapless tracks. The Synology media server doesn't, while MinimServer and Asset do.

Sorry Pixies,  that thought did cross my mind when I posted my reply.     Was your Synology able to load the latest DSM series 6.2 ??.  If not I guess thats as far as you can go.

Totally agreed, Mike. To navigate your collection using the folder view really limits the perspective of your collection to that flat representation, whereas metadata-based views have much richer ways of presenting your music. Asset has a number of prebuilt metadata views that are also very fast to navigate. MinimServer takes this to another level with its advanced metadata mapping facilities.

Ok thanks but I am currently looking to upgrade my NAS to either a better Synology ie DS218+ or similar QNAP.

Mike-B posted:

.. It's a bit clunky & somewhat dumb with browsing compared to Minimserver & Asset.  Using the simple Folder View (the view of the HDD 'music' tree) is quick easy & for most all album selection work, is really all you need.     However,  move away from Folder View & into the other browsing paths using the various album art displays & its comparatively very poor,  Asset's art display functions are instant.  Some of the Asset browsing programs are very smart, I'm now finding - Asset is showing me - artists & tracks I never knew I had.    Its early days,  but I might be changing ship on this one.  

We know Media Server's transcoding problems,  it down-samples 24-bit files & doesn't play gapless correctly.   But I've never had need of transcoding as I'm all WAV & DSD.   However StoogeMoe, I do hear a difference between WAV & un-transcoded FLAC.   I hear WAV as better on my NDX,  but a mate with a Linn KDSM does not have a difference that is audible,  so maybe it is streaming player dependant,  but I would have expected you to hear a difference with your ND5xs.

I don't understand what you mean by clunky.  I use the Naim app on the iPad to view my music.  It works for the couple of views that I use - mostly by Artist/Album.  It shows everything, including the album art work correctly.  Not sure what you're viewing with.

I do not believe in this WAV sounds better than FLAC myth.  Lossless is lossless.  The streamers should easily be able to uncompress FLAC with the processors onboard.  Before I ripped my entire collection of CD's, I tried WAV, FLAC, and AIFF.  They all sounded the same.  Therefore I chose FLAC for its more efficient storage and widely supported format.

pixies posted:

Ok thanks but I am currently looking to upgrade my NAS to either a better Synology ie DS218+ or similar QNAP.

DS218+ would have no problems running Asset.

Thanks Adrian. I was going to switch to QNAP so I would have the choice between Minimserver and Asset (because Synology doesn't or didn't support Asset).  Its hearing about the plans for Asset on Synology that has me considering sticking with Synology.  Plus its hardware and software that I am used to and I also assume I should be able to more easily transfer my existing 2 x 2TB hard drives across.

StoogeMoe posted:

I don't understand what you mean by clunky.  I use the Naim app on the iPad to view my music.  It works for the couple of views that I use - mostly by Artist/Album.  It shows everything, including the album art work correctly.  Not sure what you're viewing with.

I do not believe in this WAV sounds better than FLAC myth.  Lossless is lossless.  The streamers should easily be able to uncompress FLAC with the processors onboard.  Before I ripped my entire collection of CD's, I tried WAV, FLAC, and AIFF.  They all sounded the same.  Therefore I chose FLAC for its more efficient storage and widely supported format.

Clunky is an urban dictionary type description frequently used in relation to software to describe old tech, slow, not as smooth/easy as it could be,  compared to others.  

I use iPad & the Naim app.  Yes Media Server shows the album art but its slow (compared to Minimserver & Asset)  not much else to say really.    I am/was happy with Media Server,  it does the job.   I tried Minimserver & liked it,  the browsing functions are a lot smarter than Media Server,  but I had one or two glitches when Synology ran updates,  so I dropped it & learned to love Media Server.   I'm now trying Asset & am as impressed as with it as I was with Minimserver for its speed & multi-function browsing features.   

OK if you can't hear a difference between WAV & FLAC,  no big deal,  but don't get stuck in the lossless is lossless mindset;  Adrian_P describes what I have been told by Naim & believe I hear to be why its different.    "........  sonic advantage of using WAV with Naim streamers as a result of the lower overhead involved in WAV decoding vs. FLAC."

StoogeMoe posted:

Mike-B posted:

.. It's a bit clunky & somewhat dumb with browsing compared to Minimserver & Asset.  Using the simple Folder View (the view of the HDD 'music' tree) is quick easy & for most all album selection work, is really all you need.     However,  move away from Folder View & into the other browsing paths using the various album art displays & its comparatively very poor,  Asset's art display functions are instant.  Some of the Asset browsing programs are very smart, I'm now finding - Asset is showing me - artists & tracks I never knew I had.    Its early days,  but I might be changing ship on this one.  

We know Media Server's transcoding problems,  it down-samples 24-bit files & doesn't play gapless correctly.   But I've never had need of transcoding as I'm all WAV & DSD.   However StoogeMoe, I do hear a difference between WAV & un-transcoded FLAC.   I hear WAV as better on my NDX,  but a mate with a Linn KDSM does not have a difference that is audible,  so maybe it is streaming player dependant,  but I would have expected you to hear a difference with your ND5xs.

I don't understand what you mean by clunky.  I use the Naim app on the iPad to view my music.  It works for the couple of views that I use - mostly by Artist/Album.  It shows everything, including the album art work correctly.  Not sure what you're viewing with.

I do not believe in this WAV sounds better than FLAC myth.  Lossless is lossless.  The streamers should easily be able to uncompress FLAC with the processors onboard.  Before I ripped my entire collection of CD's, I tried WAV, FLAC, and AIFF.  They all sounded the same.  Therefore I chose FLAC for its more efficient storage and widely supported format.

I originally switched from Synology's media server to minimserver in order to experiment with transcoding from FLAC to WAV when I owned a Naim ND5XS. I found that I heard a very difference between some FLAC and WAV files, but the effect was quite subtle, and I wondered whether I could be imagining it. The effect was confirmed when I set up a number of blind tests for a couple of friends using 5 albums I ripped to both WAV and FLAC using dbPoweramp. In these blind tests, they were able to pick the WAV versions of tracks as sounding 'better' with around 90% accuracy.

Some time ago, I replaced my ND5XS with a Sonore microRendu/Gustard U12/Hugo setup, and I also run a Linn Klimax DS/1 on another system, and I don't hear a difference between WAV and FLAC versions of files on either of these setups. I have retained minimserver (with transcoding switched on) rather than return to the Synology media server simply because minimserver allows me to display all of my album artwork in grid format more or less instantaneously on both Linn Kazoo (Windows 10) for my Klimax DS/1 and Lumin (iPad) for my microRendu/Hugo system, whereas display of artwork with the Synology media server is hopelessly slow.   

Can you have two media servers installed at the same time on the Synology?  If so, when Asset releases their official version (I don't install beta software), I could install that and have it transcode to WAV.  That would be an easy way to switch between FLAC and WAV and see if I can hear a difference.  I still remain skeptical.

How would that work on the Naim app also?  Would it show two Media Servers to choose from?

I use Synology's built in media server also to render my vast movie collection, not just limited to music.  Does Asset do that too?  If not, then that is not an option for me.

StoogeMoe posted:

Can you have two media servers installed at the same time on the Synology?  If so, when Asset releases their official version (I don't install beta software), I could install that and have it transcode to WAV.  That would be an easy way to switch between FLAC and WAV and see if I can hear a difference.  I still remain skeptical.

How would that work on the Naim app also?  Would it show two Media Servers to choose from?

I use Synology's built in media server also to render my vast movie collection, not just limited to music.  Does Asset do that too?  If not, then that is not an option for me.

Yes, you can.  And the Naim app shows all of the servers.  I see no reason to actually RUN more than one music at a time, and don't.  But if you want to run one to serve video, and one that you like more to serve the music, I see no reason why you can't or shouldn't.

(Im pretty sure that Asset is music only but I've never tried to serve video with it.)

StoogeMoe posted:

Can you have two media servers installed at the same time on the Synology?  If so, when Asset releases their official version (I don't install beta software), I could install that and have it transcode to WAV.  That would be an easy way to switch between FLAC and WAV and see if I can hear a difference.  I still remain skeptical.

How would that work on the Naim app also?  Would it show two Media Servers to choose from?

I use Synology's built in media server also to render my vast movie collection, not just limited to music.  Does Asset do that too?  If not, then that is not an option for me.

You can run two servers and switch between them on the Naim app if you want. If you are doing this as a way of comparing formats (FLAC vs WAV etc.) you should bear in mind that some users have reported subtle differences in the sound between different media servers too. So if you do hear differences, they may or may not be down to file format. 

Alternatively, you could use one server, and turn transcoding on and off, or have copies of the same album in both formats. 

ChrisSU posted:

Alternatively, you could use one server, and turn transcoding on and off, or have copies of the same album in both formats. 

I experimented when I first started streaming in 2014 with a single Synology NAS loaded with Syn's Media Server & Minimserver/Java installed.    And with a selection of tracks from different albums duplicated in WAV, FLAC & ALAC,  I switched between the formats with transcoding on & off.    It drove the Mrs mad as this went on for a bit,  not sure it was the repeated music or the volume or the occupation of the listening room by a few other lumbering audio nerdish bodies.    

Anyhow, as I've said before on this thread,  WAV (no transcoding required)  was  best on my system & with my Mk-II audio receptors.   I also have to wave (pun intended) the flag for DSD