Uniti Streaming - Tidal vs USB v Server mode (USB)

Sorry two other thoughts:

Surely this method betters Core - USB straight into the right place, as opposed to more wires, another off site box, plus the best part the Naim app works super smooth with uNP (whatever its called).

Have you compared UPnP from USB against UPnP from a NAS/server? As I said in the other thread, is it a given that one is better than the other? I’m speculating that there might be an advantage in running the server on a remote device as the internal server and USB interface are then inactive, which might have advantages. 

What system are you using to test this? I’ve tried these options on my Atom, but tend not to listen very critically to it, as it is no match for the NDX in my main system. 

What I did was rip cd's to a stick (and later to a slim seagate usb ssd) using dbpoweramp. I enabled the 'server' input in the input settings, when you select the server input you then have all your music on the drive categorised by artist/album/genre/composer/conductor and playlists. It's rather nice and works well and it's such a relief to have a genre tab after tidal where everything is mixed up in your favourites. I had to ask myself why would you bother spending €2K on a Core when this cost €80 for the drive and I gather the metadata handling on the Core is not great. Now I dont have any other Naim devices like a QB or whatever so I dont know if it can be shared out this way but I guess thats where upnp comes in. Anyway it works well but just as I was discovering this mode my Nova threw in the towel so I've yet to really check it out properly SQ wise compared to Tidal. I'll be ripping the remainder of my Cd's whilst waiting for the new Nova to arrive.

Hi CHRISSU

I don't have a NAS just the Nova, as a freebie so to speak makes the Atom/Nova a very good proposition and endless box of tricks.

I'm thinking now, being less ABA focused, as it is so easy and quick to do, via UPnP it just has more life, maybe more detail and definition, but Tidal does seem limp in comparison, yes all the same detail, soundstage, just a but limp in comparison.

For me I think I will stick to Tidal and be lazy, but for sure albums I like I will get and rip to USB.

Mercky feeling for you whilst awaiting the Nova return.

Obsydian posted:

Hi CHRISSU

I don't have a NAS just the Nova, as a freebie so to speak makes the Atom/Nova a very good proposition and endless box of tricks.

I'm thinking now, being less ABA focused, as it is so easy and quick to do, via UPnP it just has more life, maybe more detail and definition, but Tidal does seem limp in comparison, yes all the same detail, soundstage, just a but limp in comparison.

For me I think I will stick to Tidal and be lazy, but for sure albums I like I will get and rip to USB.

That's what I intend to do, the few albums that I find myself returning to again and again over time on Tidal I will buy as a CD and rip

I recall some nice forum member measured power consumption and with server mode it was allot higher, not Statement type £300 a month ????

Obsydian posted:

I recall some nice forum member measured power consumption and with server mode it was allot higher, not Statement type £300 a month ????

What I described above is not server mode - I have that switched off. I'm just selecting the 'Server' Input as a source

6hrs nearly non stop and still going with UPnP USB ????

ChrisSU posted:

Have you compared UPnP from USB against UPnP from a NAS/server? As I said in the other thread, is it a given that one is better than the other? I’m speculating that there might be an advantage in running the server on a remote device as the internal server and USB interface are then inactive, which might have advantages.

...

I was indeed a bit surprised to find out (in the ND555 white paper) that the ND555 and, most likely, the upcoming NDX2 are not only streamers but also UPnP servers. In hindsight this is not very surprising since they are using the same streaming card as the Uniti series and this has both ethernet and USB inputs.

Many successful manufacturers, among others Naim, Sonore and, most recently Antipodes with their CX + EX combination have been advocating running UPnP server and client on different machines for best sound quality. Thus, it is perhaps a little bit surprising that Naim offers and integrated server + streamer at 500 level. It is still possible that, as you suggest, the best results are obtained when the ND555 pulls the data from a remote UPnP server. We will se what ND555 owners will report.

On the other hand, pulling files from a remote UPnP server (in contrast to pulling data from a USB attached drive) brings into the equation ethernet cables and internet switches or wireless connections with all their vagaries. Internet interfaces, USB interfaces and SSD all radiate electromagnetic energy. Thus, I guess it is very difficult to draw general conclusions and very much depends on the care taken at isolating sensitive components from these potential sources of noise.

I am anyway been arguing for devices that can (but do not need to) be used as integrated server + renderer solutions and I am happy to see that Naim has made a first step. They are still far from having a first-class UPnP server and I wish one could run MinimServer on their ND555, NDX2 and Uniti devices in much the same way as one can run MinimServer on the Antipodes, Melcos, Innuos, etc. But at least it is a step in the right direction.

Mercky posted:

What I did was rip cd's to a stick (and later to a slim seagate usb ssd) using dbpoweramp. I enabled the 'server' input in the input settings, when you select the server input you then have all your music on the drive categorised by artist/album/genre/composer/conductor and playlists. It's rather nice and works well and it's such a relief to have a genre tab after tidal where everything is mixed up in your favourites. I had to ask myself why would you bother spending €2K on a Core when this cost €80 for the drive and I gather the metadata handling on the Core is not great. Now I dont have any other Naim devices like a QB or whatever so I dont know if it can be shared out this way but I guess thats where upnp comes in. Anyway it works well but just as I was discovering this mode my Nova threw in the towel so I've yet to really check it out properly SQ wise compared to Tidal. I'll be ripping the remainder of my Cd's whilst waiting for the new Nova to arrive.

I think that being able to connect a USB drive to a Uniti device and just get started with a full-fledged one box UPnP server + streamer solution is a very compelling proposition.

For the time being, I am using a Raspberry Pi with a DigiOne on its back and a 1TB external HDD. The Pi runs a server + renderer solution (MinimServer and upmpdcli) and the S/PDIF output of the DigiOne is connected to a Naim DAC is via DC1. I am very pleased with this solution but I still would prefer having the Pi and its PSU packaged in a single black box with an internal power supply and a proper bay for the HDD. If only one could run MinimServer on the Core! 

What I would like to see is Naim equipping all their devices that are capable of running a UPnP server with proper slots for HDD or SSD drives like they have done for the Core. It does not really matter whether a device has ripping capabilities or not: a device that can run a UPnP server shall have a proper bay for a local disk and simple means of transferring data to that disk.

For the time being, it might be beneficial, in terms of sound quality, to power external drives that are connected to the USB inputes of Uniti devices (or to ND555s) with their own linear power supplies. There are a number of threads in the CA forum discussing power supplies for external drives. SSD are generally speaking considered to be noisier than HDD but, as usual, there are exceptions to the rule.

Have fun, nbpf

I had been looking into a Raspberry Pi  setup for other reasons, but will keep a USB to UPnP server (Nova) as ripped and downloaded some more favorite albums.

The Uniti proposition for the one boxers, want it easy types - just got better.

I still feeling i will revert to Tidal and use the UPnP server (Nova) for longer solo listening sessions, but i do find the USB gets hot (do in general), so each time i intend to switch off server mode, etc... when not in use (few clicks in the app)

Obsydian posted:

...

I still feeling i will revert to Tidal and use the UPnP server (Nova) for longer solo listening sessions, but i do find the USB gets hot (do in general), so each time i intend to switch off server mode, etc... when not in use (few clicks in the app)

What does actually get hot? The USB drive or the Nova itself? Perhaps you can try powering the external drive with an external power supply. This should mitigate the temperature issues and perhaps also improve the sound quality a little bit. 

The USB, I normally use SanDisk mini thumb drives, they get hot even on my laptop or OFF to my mobile.

I opted for a regular side thumb USB drive.

I have a portable WD SSD might try it.

Back home listening to no Tidal all UPnP USB really enjoying it.

Two questions please.

1. My SanDisk USB is still getting hot, today I could not UPnP to work took some fiddling. Question is it worth investing in a portable SSD, I do have a spare portable HDD. But, then I'll need a fancy USB cable and can the Nova handle USB 3.1 ?

2. The ripped albums I have on the SanDisk USB are just call dumbed under the albums section and all a bit messy, is this just poor downloads and old rips ?

I bought a 1TB seagate slimline ssd, it was about 60 or 70 quid, seems to be fine but I’m only ripping to it now and haven’t had the opportunity yet to test out properly until I get my new nova. It’s nice and neat and you can plug in the back and hide away. I’d imagine your existing stuff needs to be re ripped if the metadata is not coming through properly 

Obsydian posted:

Two questions please.

1. My SanDisk USB is still getting hot, today I could not UPnP to work took some fiddling. Question is it worth investing in a portable SSD, I do have a spare portable HDD. But, then I'll need a fancy USB cable and can the Nova handle USB 3.1 ?

USB 3 is backwards compatible with USB 2, which is plenty fast enough for music files. Don’t worry about it. 

Obsydian posted:

The USB, I normally use SanDisk mini thumb drives, they get hot even on my laptop or OFF to my mobile.

I opted for a regular side thumb USB drive.

I have a portable WD SSD might try it.

If you mean ones like this, while reasonably good VFM, I have a few and they get damned hot and occasionally freeze:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/pr...s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

For any of you using SSDs check what they're formatted as - I recently got a 1GB Samsung T5 - it's formatted exFAT by default so works on Mac/PC but the Unitis won't recognise that.

Obsydian posted:

Two questions please.

1. My SanDisk USB is still getting hot, today I could not UPnP to work took some fiddling. Question is it worth investing in a portable SSD, I do have a spare portable HDD. But, then I'll need a fancy USB cable and can the Nova handle USB 3.1 ?

2. The ripped albums I have on the SanDisk USB are just call dumbed under the albums section and all a bit messy, is this just poor downloads and old rips ?

i tried different usb sticks or external ssd drives for my unitserve or nds, some where working, some not.   The lacie ssd , 500 go storage, was not running hot, and was nice looking too. ( lacie porsche design).

Thanks guys, I did use that small SanDisk then went to a slightly larger.

I am looking at the Samsung T5, recall Naim saying best plug it into the Nova as it has a format function. Recall my current USB was a pain to correctly format.

Enjoying this method so much not used Tidal at all and whilst Looking Or an SSD started looking at a Core, but £2k all in vs £180 for a Samsung T5.

2 days on and no Tidal (Well car only), can see the appeal of the Core, but the whole buy a CD, rip a CD to me is so 90s, when off some sites you can download 24bit.

But I can see the appeal and in a pickle now, I've got so used to Tidal and Spotify (Soundiz to Tidal) vast catalogue and playlists, there's no way I plug that kind money now into building and maintaining a library.

I fear the Samsung T5 will push me further into the UPnP route ????

can you see the cover of the albums and the informations in that way OBSYDIAN?   when i put a memory stick in my nds, i have to choose usb , no upnp, on naim app. After i see the files, but without covers and informations.

You have also the innuos zen mini , ripper and nas, twice less expensive vs the core, and black color too.

French Rooster posted:

can you see the cover of the albums and the informations in that way OBSYDIAN?   when i put a memory stick in my nds, i have to choose usb , no upnp, on naim app. After i see the files, but without covers and informations.

You have also the innuos zen mini , ripper and nas, twice less expensive vs the core, and black color too.

Hit and miss but I would say that was however they where ripped or downloaded. I'd still prefer to turn off the display.

Just received a DPD notice from Samsung my T5 arrives tomorrow, £160 for 500GB of  V-NAND flash memory. 

Album work I am not fussed, in general it still freezes and the app via UPnP is still as flaky.

Oh MR ROOSTER I am also waiting delivery of more Belden mains cables for the Cisco and my Wireworld block, including a synergistic research blue fuse for the Wireworld which feeds my router, switch, and TV. Will report in a need thread...