I’m still not clear what sound you want or what music you like, Zackwater. PB has given you good advice. I’m not a fan of the Focals, PMCs, Magicos or Kudos. The SL2s are fantastic, but I’m sure PB is right in thinking they won’t give the bass or scale you want. The Shahinian Diapason are the only speakers that give me the scale I want with big classical, but they’re not to everyone’s taste, particularly if your preference is for rock and you are more used to a home hi-fi rather than live event presentation.

Polarbear posted:

David O'Higgins posted:

SL2 will do you, if you can source them and find a good dealer to install them.

I am guessing Zack wants plenty of rich bass. If the Focal Maestro Utopia's don't satisfy his bass needs the SL2's won't be suitable for him. Now if he could source a pair of DBLs??

The answer of course! A nice pair of DBLs will give you all the bass you could ever want, and sound terrific to boot. I ran a pair of active SL2s with two nSubs for a few years, but they just didn't do the scale of the DBLs. My listening room's 9m X 14m.

tonym posted:

Polarbear posted:

David O'Higgins posted:

SL2 will do you, if you can source them and find a good dealer to install them.

I am guessing Zack wants plenty of rich bass. If the Focal Maestro Utopia's don't satisfy his bass needs the SL2's won't be suitable for him. Now if he could source a pair of DBLs??

The answer of course! A nice pair of DBLs will give you all the bass you could ever want, and sound terrific to boot. I ran a pair of active SL2s with two nSubs for a few years, but they just didn't do the scale of the DBLs. My listening room's 9m X 14m.

You are very right Tony, there is no substitute for size of speaker when it comes to bass. Forget small speaker and subwoofer, I have never heard a system that integrates fully.

If you can find a pair of DBLs I don't think you will be dissapointed.

Michael_B. posted:

If you can find a pair of DBLs I don't think you will be dissapointed.

I have zero luck purchasing anything used.  Plus being in Arkansas, USA the choices are very slim.  I’m a year away from new speakers.  Adding the 555/500dr before Xmas this year, already on order.  I am planning on going to Denver next year for the consumer show in October to spend a few days looking/listening to the various speakers.  I just want a set of speakers that don’t require subs to give me the sound I like.  

There’s always Hope: Hope, Arkansas, home of Klipsch Loudspeaker Systems.

Tallan posted:

There’s always Hope: Hope, Arkansas, home of Klipsch Loudspeaker Systems.

I actually own a pair of Belles with my old Marantz 2330b.  If I had two corners I would try Klipschorns. 

Kudos Titan 808 is the modern DBL The perfect match for Naims 500. Best out there? No clue, but very, very good!

Not so sure on that, myself......I would take DBL,s any day. Big gap in the market for a DBL equivalent.....and with time you would hope it could be bettered.

With that level of amplification, a careful demo is going to be a must. I think the only thing the forum can do is out ideas in your head for shortlisting.

As well as the fine speakers mentioned, if I had  500 system, I would also be looking at PMC offerings like the Fact 12 or IB2se and MB2se.

The latter may still be too much speaker for a single NAP500 though.

I run a pair of mb2s with a 300 no problem, so a 500 would defo not have a problem

Gazza posted:

Not so sure on that, myself......I would take DBL,s any day. Big gap in the market for a DBL equivalent.....and with time you would hope it could be bettered.

I wouldn’t.

This may be the Naim forum but let’s not over glamourise things. The DBL’s in their day  were really great speakers but the 808’s move things on a bit. (Sorry Tony ????)....

Dave J 

while I still had the briks I was looking at alternative speakers as I rightly thought these were the bottle neck of my system at the time, as good though as it was

the 808’s were on my short list, then a pair of DBLs became available, I heard these on a quarter of the electronics I had and in a room best described as a big cupboard and was completely blown away, I went in there with the attitude of I bet these can’t beat my briks, the first note changed that 

getting them home into my room and system made me quickly realise that I’ve bought my last speakers 

they’ve cost me a fortune, all cables became Super Sarum, supercaps became DR’d, the 52PS became 552 DR, 2 of the 6 135’s have become 500

still looking to do 2 more 500 DR s, a metal plinth in the LP12 , a Lyra Etna and a high end phonostage, probably a Master Groove SR

none of these upgrades would have happened without the dibbles

so now I’m wondering what else the 808’s do that the DBLs don’t ? 

I’m also led to believe that Naim have pulled the plug on active x overs for Kudos 

lyndon

Zackwater posted:

Tallan posted:

There’s always Hope: Hope, Arkansas, home of Klipsch Loudspeaker Systems.

I actually own a pair of Belles with my old Marantz 2330b.  If I had two corners I would try Klipschorns. 

That's very interesting.  The Belles are the only big Klipsch I haven't heard; what is it that you want that they do not provide?  And I wonder if La Scalas or Cornwalls could...?

But there's a plethora of other choices, of course.  To experience realistic full deep bass you need to move a lot of air so large speakers are a must.  If your budget can accommodate them Wilson Audio may have models that would suit.

analogmusic posted:

Eithe the new dynaudio confidence range or hi end Sonus Fabers... of course the new focal Sopra must be auditioned also. 

and forget Magico. I’m very disappointed with them. 

I would also suggest a look at Dynaudio's new Confidence line. They are due at US dealers in November I believe. 

Dave J posted:

Gazza posted:

Not so sure on that, myself......I would take DBL,s any day. Big gap in the market for a DBL equivalent.....and with time you would hope it could be bettered.

I wouldn’t.

This may be the Naim forum but let’s not over glamourise things. The DBL’s in their day  were really great speakers but the 808’s move things on a bit. (Sorry Tony ????)....

No need to apologise, your opinion's perfectly valid. But in what way do 808s “Move things on a bit” over DBLs? They're certainly different, but DBLs do things the 808s can't, like working really close to the wall. My active DBLs are better sounding in my system, but I do enjoy 808s and, should something awful happen to the DBLs, like SWMBO accidentally dousing them in lighter fuel and then dropping the still- smouldering butt of one of her Regius Double Corona cigars on them, I'd be looking to active 808s as a candidate for their replacement. 

tonym posted:

Dave J posted:

Gazza posted:

Not so sure on that, myself......I would take DBL,s any day. Big gap in the market for a DBL equivalent.....and with time you would hope it could be bettered.

I wouldn’t.

This may be the Naim forum but let’s not over glamourise things. The DBL’s in their day  were really great speakers but the 808’s move things on a bit. (Sorry Tony ????)....

No need to apologise, your opinion's perfectly valid. But in what way do 808s “Move things on a bit” over DBLs? They're certainly different, but DBLs do things the 808s can't, like working really close to the wall. My active DBLs are better sounding in my system, but I do enjoy 808s and, should something awful happen to the DBLs, like SWMBO accidentally dousing them in lighter fuel and then dropping the still- smouldering butt of one of her Regius Double Corona cigars on them, I'd be looking to active 808s as a candidate for their replacement. 

Need to keep her away from the baccy...

You’re right as far as working close a wall, given their sheer bulk, it’s a good job they can. I recall when I first saw some thinking why these people have 2 upright pianos in their lounge. ????

Anyway, I wasn’t criticising them as such, just that, from my experience of them, they have only really ‘spoken’ to me when in active mode, run passively, I’ve not really heard any that made me consider buying  a pair. 

808’s work exceptionally well with just a 300 and even better with a 500, they don’t need to be active to achieve the ‘wow’ factor. I’ve gone as far as I’m going to go - I won’t be going active - and wouldn’t consider adding to the box count, not to mention the cost. In my circumstances and given the dimensions of my listening room, I’ve “compromised” with 606’s, but if I had twice the space, I’d go 808’s. Unless Zackwater is considering going active, I’d comfortably advocate 808’s (and even if he were to go active in the future, given a suitable crossover). 

I heard the 808,s with Statement amps and they sounded good......but did not really grab me. But that’s speakers for you, bit marmite.....and I don,t like marmite either.

Zackwater posted:

Michael_B. posted:

If you can find a pair of DBLs I don't think you will be dissapointed.

I have zero luck purchasing anything used.  Plus being in Arkansas, USA the choices are very slim.  I’m a year away from new speakers.  Adding the 555/500dr before Xmas this year, already on order.  I am planning on going to Denver next year for the consumer show in October to spend a few days looking/listening to the various speakers.  I just want a set of speakers that don’t require subs to give me the sound I like.  

Arkansas is not bad.  I am here after all.   We should get in touch.  

rjstaines posted:

Sounsfaber posted:

Probably been said but 

Kudos Titan 808!

Ooh no. Tried 'em, didn't like 'em.  Sent them back after a month's home dem.  Active ATC 100's on the other hand... tried 'em, liked 'em, kept 'em (and sent the NAP500 back).

Each to his own of course.

Hats off, Roger — I know you know your onions!

IME, the active SMC 100s/272 sounded very good at my dealer’s; but my insane ears liked the AR-2s (1959?) better, in the same room, using 282/250/Apollo CD.

That said, at home, I got my fill of the AR2s after 10 months.  “Situational” and “subjective” only begin to describe how we and our rooms interact with speakers.

This is my way of agreeing with you completely about the also-wonderful 808s.  (Never got Allaes to sound good at my house, either, BTW.  Not the speakers’ fault.)

Nautilus 805s and KEF Q50s are still contenders here.  They both sound great.  Crazy, I know.

Part of the reason I love the 805s is the look on the former owner’s face when he heard them with a 500 up ‘em.  We both were astonished.

Nick

NickSeattle posted:

 

. . . Nautilus 805s and KEF Q50s are still contenders here.  They both sound great.  Crazy, I know.

Part of the reason I love the 805s is the look on the former owner’s face when he heard them with a 500 up ‘em.  We both were astonished.

Nick

I hasten to add, the the seller of the 805s was delighted they sounded great for me, as he wanted to down-size, and was worried they might not work for me.  All parties satisfied.

”You - never - know” until the demo in-situ.

(Dead horse fully beaten.)

Nick

Gazza posted:

I heard the 808,s with Statement amps and they sounded good......but did not really grab me. But that’s speakers for you, bit marmite.....and I don,t like marmite either.

Might have been the Statement amps, of course.... 

Of course.....the Kudos guys will get another try when and if I change my speakers. I will be hoping that at Audio show East (Nov2/3) we get some great sounds from Kudos and others.

I just took delivery of a pair of Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum this morning. Even cold out of the box they sound fantastic with my 250DR, and are a game changer compared to what I had before (Contour S3.4 with Esotar2 tweeter upgrade). These are integrated with a pair of REL R-328 subs.

Indeed for me the best speaker I ever heard is the dynaudio c2 platinum. Congratulations!

Yes, thank you. It's my dream speaker and I snagged a new pair on closeout before they are gone. Luckily, they had them in my preferred finish: Piano Black. Score!