272/555DR Replacement

???? RUSST,....Listen carefully,LinnDS is often "Cleaner and Clearer",but the musical feeling tends to seem like more "sterile".

Had it been in a Naim system,I would also have been hesitant to mix the power supplies.... SMPS against LPS.
But that problem has you not now.

/Peder ????

Russ

I'm pretty sure you can continue your membership to this forum, even if you sold off your powelines 

I'm in a similar situation, though I'm not leaving Naim and 272 does do well in my system. Tempted to try the new streaming platform, I love my Atom for instance. NDX2 may be nice, with my 555ps, but as you say, need a preamp and another ps. Nova could be another neat solution or even wait for an upgraded 272.

Not my biggest problem actually, enjoying as it is.

S

Hi Russt,

I suspect Peder hasn’t any experience of a KDS (presumably it’s a Katalyst version you’re trying?) judging by his comments and, unless he lives in a world without phone chargers, PCs and the like, he’s overplaying the SMPS LPS card.

Although I’m not a fan of Linn’s interconnects and find the performance of the KDS is liberated by something a little more capable, I find it far superior to the 272, as it should be. You’d need to be at NDS555 level to be doing a fair comparison.

Be interested to see how you find things after a few days. Not tried one into active ATCs but it should sound great.

Cheers

Dave

Hi I went from a 272/555ps setup ........ it was expensive and hurt....... I sold my 272 and bought a pre loved NDS ........ then I bought a pre loved 552 ......... its an expensive process. I think if I were going about it again ....... now ....  I would give it another 12 months ....... there could be a new 272 replacement immanent. The 552 is fantastic ..... but the NDS needs a super lumina interconnect ( I hated the high line) ......... again very expensive.

I feel your pain ............

Dave J posted:

Hi Russt,

I suspect Peder hasn’t any experience of a KDS (presumably it’s a Katalyst version you’re trying?) judging by his comments and, unless he lives in a world without phone chargers, PCs and the like, he’s overplaying the SMPS LPS card.

Cheers

Dave

???? DAVE J,....To be very clear,..I NEVER pronounce myself on what I have no experience with.Should I for some reason speculate,...yes then I mention it in the post.

But one thing perhaps I would have been clearer with,..In my quick post....

◾ I did no comparison against 272/555DR,but I described how KlimaxDS can be perceived against comparable Naim-streamer.

◾ Regarding SMPS-products in a Naim system.
If one is "Attention To Detail",..as we all are in our group,this is well-known,..That it may negatively affect a Naim system.
I think many people know about this,..at this forum as well.

I then assume from a top-installed,optimized music-system in my statements...with dedicated mains on a selected electrical phase.
There you definitely hear,....If you put a product with SMPS in a Naim system.

So if I ball back the ball,..So it seems that it is you who have little lack of experience with this ????.

/Peder ????

Sadly, all too much experience, Peder. I’ve reached end-game as far as my equipment is concerned and I did a heck of a lot of listening over very many years to get here, so although it’s only “my” opinion, it is a well-informed one.

You’ll excuse my assumption that you didn’t have experience of the KDS, as what you describe is not what I’ve found. I bought one after exhaustive back to back listening and, whilst I liked what the NDS did and could happily have lived with one, I preferred the KDS (and that was an early version). Since the arrival of Katalyst, it really has opened up a gap - I compared them again before deciding to invest in the Katalyst upgrade.

Sterile it is not, in fact it has an analogue quality that is of real appeal. Of course, this could be because of the Naim amplification that I use - the common element has been a 552 unless it’s been a full Linn Exakt system.

In Russt’s situation, I would be amazed if there was a better one box solution available, let alone one at, what appears to be, a really good price. The fact that it responds well to cable changes simply gives him scope for future enhancement.

Peder posted:

Dave J posted:

Hi Russt,

I suspect Peder hasn’t any experience of a KDS (presumably it’s a Katalyst version you’re trying?) judging by his comments and, unless he lives in a world without phone chargers, PCs and the like, he’s overplaying the SMPS LPS card.

Cheers

Dave

???? DAVE J,....To be very clear,..I NEVER pronounce myself on what I have no experience with.Should I for some reason speculate,...yes then I mention it in the post.

But one thing perhaps I would have been clearer with,..In my quick post....

◾ I did no comparison against 272/555DR,but I described how KlimaxDS can be perceived against comparable Naim-streamer.

◾ Regarding SMPS-products in a Naim system.
If one is "Attention To Detail",..as we all are in our group,this is well-known,..That it may negatively affect a Naim system.
I think many people know about this,..at this forum as well.

I then assume from a top-installed,optimized music-system in my statements...with dedicated mains on a selected electrical phase.
There you definitely hear,....If you put a product with SMPS in a Naim system.

So if I ball back the ball,..So it seems that it is you who have little lack of experience with this ????.

/Peder ????

for smps in naim system, you have the not so old naim unitserve, powered by smps.  The cisco switch has also smps. Mine is on the same mains power block as the sources and electronics.  Before my cisco was on a different power block, but now the sound is better.  All is on phase too.  The power block sits on a granite base.

???? French Rooster,....As I said,here we have no SMPS on the same dedicated mains and electrical phase as the music system.

Some here have also constructed a LPS to their Cisco 2960,...and yes,..it plays better.
Then...with LPS,it sits on the same dedicated mains.

/Peder ????

???? DAVE J,....I agree with you,..Katalyst is a massive upgrade,very analog-like.
That,..KlimaxDS reaches a completely different level,if it is that version "RUSST" has,..so it can get really good with his speakers.

Then,I am more sceptical about having the power-amps in the speakers,..Okay,it will be a cheaper solution to be able to run active.
But external amplifiers are always better,..consider internal vibrations,ventilation etc.,etc.

But generally we perceive Linn's streamers,.. Majik,Akurate and earlier KlimaxDS as I described in my earlier post,..when we run them against Naim's corresponding streamers.
If you run them in a complete Linn-system, that's definitely the case.
Clearer and cleaner,while Naim has more of what they are famous for,...PRaT..and the musical touch points that are so unique to Naim.

You may have found a compromise,..Linn-Streamer-Naim Pre/Power despite the SMPS???????? that you preferred.

It is also about what you personally prefer,..you mentioned Linn's Exact-system.
Here in Sweden I can well say that 7 out of 10 prefers former Linn in front of Linn Exact.

Many here do not want to "take in this sh-t"... others,albeit fewer,love it and invest big money.
I have an acquaintance who has Linn's previous top-speakers...????????

Active Linn Komri,with 8 Klimax Solo monoblock.
Yes everything is latest version of Klimax products,best Melco NAS...everything top-Spec.He added € 48 000:- to take the Exact-road in February....as you from the UK say "not my cup of tea".

What I wanted now to bring forth with this writing????,..yes I have forgotten...but fun to be talked at a moment Dave J ????.

/Peder ????

Peder posted:

???? French Rooster,....As I said,here we have no SMPS on the same dedicated mains and electrical phase as the music system.

Some here have also constructed a LPS to their Cisco 2960,...and yes,..it plays better.
Then...with LPS,it sits on the same dedicated mains.

/Peder ????

it seems to be not an absolute rule.   I follow this rule before, connecting the cisco to a dedicated power block, different from the power block for the hifi.  But recently i tried to connect the cisco on the later:  the sound improved, was less grainy and more natural.  The power block for hifi is of high quality and the cisco connected to it didn’t affect the sound.  Even the contrary.

RUSST, it will be interesting to hear your comparisons,  I do think the 272 is a little over hyped and can be improved on.

maybe their will be a 372 ??

wenger2015 posted:

RUSST, it will be interesting to hear your comparisons,  I do think the 272 is a little over hyped and can be improved on.

maybe their will be a 372 ??

Can you suggest any alternative combined streamer/pre-amp of comparable or better quality for the same price? I agree that a few people have been guilty of claiming ridiculously high levels of performance, but I would maintain it’s unbeatable for £3.7k.

auralic vega maybe ....but personally i didn’t heard it.

To respond to the OP, alternate to the 272 Pre section, or to any other Pre for that matter, is.. Allegri+. Size and color prevent it from qualifying as a black box in the box count. 2nd hand NDS or ND555 will do the rest. ????

Am I excommunicated yet? ????

Chag -

Timmo1341 posted:

wenger2015 posted:

RUSST, it will be interesting to hear your comparisons,  I do think the 272 is a little over hyped and can be improved on.

maybe their will be a 372 ??

Can you suggest any alternative combined streamer/pre-amp of comparable or better quality for the same price? I agree that a few people have been guilty of claiming ridiculously high levels of performance, but I would maintain it’s unbeatable for £3.7k.

What you have to remember is the OP has a £6600 power supply hooked up to the 272 and wants an improvement. 

So the problem is not the 555ps?

The 272 for certain has its limitations, which I agree with.

As for alternatives.... ???

282/ ndx / second hand, with 555ps.

Hi Russ

My 272 is more than likely leaving me very soon. Adding a 555 improved it greatly but I’ve not been entirely convinced by it. I am sticking with Naim and will look at NDX2 and NDS at some point. 

NDX2 into a non Naim preamp perhaps? Like a Bryston or some such.

Guys, Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I can confirm it is the latest Katalyst version. 

Dave J - when you say the KDS responds well to cable changes do you have experience with alternative power cables? I'll be using the stock power cable for the foreseeable future but I guess a future upgrade could further enhance the experience? Also I'm currently using Chord Shawline RCA to XLR as it connects to either the 272 or KDS via the RCA and XLR at the ATC end, would there be any advantage in having a balanced connection going XLR to XLR if I stick with the KDS?

Chag- I did look at the allegri+ but without a remote control or app to change the volume I'm not sure if I could live with it but thanks for the suggestion.

Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to listen any more since yesterday's initial session and I'm out for most of the day today. I should have some time over the weekend to have a good listen though.

Russ

A little while ago I was pondering getting active ATCs, and as part of the process I asked a Linn and Naim dealer for their view on whether the KDS would be better than my 272/555. Their view was that I’d find the Naim far more engaging and enjoyable, and pretty much said not to bother with the Linn. I totally accept Dave’s views of it working well with Naim amplification, but that’s a different scenario of the streamer/preamp directly into ATC. The KDS still looks hugely attractive - one small box rather than two bigger ones. The fact that Linn have upgraded the KDS without the need to totally change it is also very appealing, unlike Naim with the change to the new streamers. 

I have never heard the KDS of course, but certainly based on what I was told I’d be sure to take a good while before deciding. When trying something new it’s very easy to jump to the conclusion that it’s better when actually it’s just different, and in fact some of what you really liked about the current setup is no longer there.

Regarding balanced connections I spoke to ATC about this and their view was that it’s a definite advantage, and something that can of course be achieved with the Linn. 

Don’t believe everything on the internet 

the KDS is a mighty source with Naim amplification.

the CD555 is better in the bass area but that’s it... very fine source with software that works every time with no issues

Finkfan posted:

Hi Russ

My 272 is more than likely leaving me very soon. Adding a 555 improved it greatly but I’ve not been entirely convinced by it. I am sticking with Naim and will look at NDX2 and NDS at some point. 

Am I right in thinking that your 555 is none DR and no Powerline?

GraemeH also tried a none DR 555 and returned it for a XPSdr as he felt something was missing from the sound.

Hi HH,  I had more or less the same when auditioning active ATCs,  Naim boogies better than Linn.  At the time I put it down to the dealer guys personal preferences,  I will be going around the same circle again in the future & will be paying more attention,  maybe (just maybe hopefully) with a 572  .           That said a mate has a KDS driving the Linn speaker system & that is impressive.  

If Naim do release a new platform streaming preamp, even as a direct replacement for the 272 rather than something higher up the scale, it will be interesting to hear whether the improvement is as great as that (allegedly) between the NDX and NDX2. In the meantime I’m very happy with my 272 but am saving my pennies just in case its replacement is a real step up. 

Active ATCs are on the back burner as the 300/SL2s are so good. That said, I wonder whether a KDS directly into the 300s would be any good, and whether sufficient Naiminess would be preserved. A downside of course is that, or so I believe, multiroom with the QBs would no longer work.