272/555DR Replacement

Peder posted:

???? DAVE J,....I agree with you,..Katalyst is a massive upgrade,very analog-like.
That,..KlimaxDS reaches a completely different level,if it is that version "RUSST" has,..so it can get really good with his speakers.

Then,I am more sceptical about having the power-amps in the speakers,..Okay,it will be a cheaper solution to be able to run active.
But external amplifiers are always better,..consider internal vibrations,ventilation etc.,etc.

But generally we perceive Linn's streamers,.. Majik,Akurate and earlier KlimaxDS as I described in my earlier post,..when we run them against Naim's corresponding streamers.
If you run them in a complete Linn-system, that's definitely the case.
Clearer and cleaner,while Naim has more of what they are famous for,...PRaT..and the musical touch points that are so unique to Naim.

You may have found a compromise,..Linn-Streamer-Naim Pre/Power despite the SMPS???????? that you preferred.

It is also about what you personally prefer,..you mentioned Linn's Exact-system.
Here in Sweden I can well say that 7 out of 10 prefers former Linn in front of Linn Exact.

Many here do not want to "take in this sh-t"... others,albeit fewer,love it and invest big money.
I have an acquaintance who has Linn's previous top-speakers...????????

Active Linn Komri,with 8 Klimax Solo monoblock.
Yes everything is latest version of Klimax products,best Melco NAS...everything top-Spec.He added € 48 000:- to take the Exact-road in February....as you from the UK say "not my cup of tea".

What I wanted now to bring forth with this writing????,..yes I have forgotten...but fun to be talked at a moment Dave J ????.

/Peder ????

 

 

going from former Linn to Exact is similar in character to my ears like NACA to Superlumina Speaker cable

At first some ears may not like it, but listen a bit longer to Superlumina and NACA5 sounds forced. Superlumina has more "variability", fast when it required and slower when needed, and the music doesn't have stress...

Exakt is like like, powerful and fast when needed, without hint of stress in the music.

Nigel - yes as I understand you can’t multiroom between the Naim streamers and 3rd parties.   

hungryhalibut posted:

 ...............     Active ATCs are on the back burner as the 300/SL2s are so good.

My next significant change with audio will probably be my last & will coincide with a house move.  I intend to go for the best that my ears can perceive,  but the project also includes box count reduction or at least no box count growth, & its not easy.  ND555 (or NDS2+PSU) ,  Pre-amp+PSU,  Power amp + (maybe) PSU, thats all going in the wrong direction.   Hence why I'm hanging out for a top end streaming pre-amp & active speakers.  OK the streamer/pre will more than likely be better with a PSU,  but I can live with that.  

If I were in the market for a brand spanking new streamer/dac/pre at this price point Naim wouldn't be my first thought. 

HiFiman posted:

Finkfan posted:

Hi Russ

My 272 is more than likely leaving me very soon. Adding a 555 improved it greatly but I’ve not been entirely convinced by it. I am sticking with Naim and will look at NDX2 and NDS at some point. 

Am I right in thinking that your 555 is none DR and no Powerline?

GraemeH also tried a none DR 555 and returned it for a XPSdr as he felt something was missing from the sound.

 

Hi Hifiman 

Thats correct. Non DR 555 powering the 272 and no powerline. Also it’s an early burndy, not the newer version. Maybe all those things in place would make difference. 

So a non DR £7.5 k psu isn’t good enough for the 272 and  it also needs a £500 mains cable but you have still saved yourself one black box and that’s what is important. 

Finkfan posted:

HiFiman 

Am I right in thinking that your 555 is none DR and no Powerline?

GraemeH also tried a none DR 555 and returned it for a XPSdr as he felt something was missing from the sound.

 

Hi Hifiman 

Thats correct. Non DR 555 powering the 272 and no powerline. Also it’s an early burndy, not the newer version. Maybe all those things in place would make difference. 

Hard to say but what would be interesting is to borrow a 555dr with Powerline and S-XPS burndy to compare.

How old is your 555 is it due foe a service?

One thing I purchased a used Powerline and I use this on my poor man's PSU the XP5xs with great results.

Yeah it would be interesting. My 555 is 10 years old so should be good for another 5. I think it’s just the digital half of the 272 that’s not working for me. The CDX2 into the analog side sounds great. As other have suggested it maybe that I just prefer the CD Dac to the 272s. 

Statement 555 with 555ps simple

Russt posted:

Guys, Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I can confirm it is the latest Katalyst version. 

Dave J - when you say the KDS responds well to cable changes do you have experience with alternative power cables? I'll be using the stock power cable for the foreseeable future but I guess a future upgrade could further enhance the experience? Also I'm currently using Chord Shawline RCA to XLR as it connects to either the 272 or KDS via the RCA and XLR at the ATC end, would there be any advantage in having a balanced connection going XLR to XLR if I stick with the KDS?

Chag- I did look at the allegri+ but without a remote control or app to change the volume I'm not sure if I could live with it but thanks for the suggestion.

Unfortunately I haven't had a chance to listen any more since yesterday's initial session and I'm out for most of the day today. I should have some time over the weekend to have a good listen though.

Russ

Hi Russ,

Yes, I have. Started with a Naim Powerline on a Linn Akurate Radikal, which was a nice upgrade on Linn’s standard lead. After upgrading to a Klimax Radikal, given that it wouldn’t accept the Naim connector, I took the plunge on a Chord Sarum TA, which can be bought with a compatible IEC. The difference was huge. Then I tried it on the KDS and I never went back. This has now been upgraded to Sarum T, again with excellent results.

The biggest improvement for me was changing the Linn Silver i/c (which I think is crap, btw) for a Sarum TA. It really opened things up and gives you all the boogie that you get from Naim but with loads more besides. I’m now using a ChordMusic, which is simply stunning. 

I did use Music balanced cables from my Urika until recently going Urika II using the Exakt link on my KDSM (a KDS with switchable preamp and additional inputs - might suit you?).

Anyway, good luck with the auditioning. Despite the fact that I find comparison of 272 with KDS very one-sided - I appreciate what the 272 does, though - whatever you decide will be based on your own tastes and preferences, and that’s what matters.

Cheers

Dave

HH - I appreciate your comments as I've followed your Hifi journey in the last couple of years and I value your knowledge and experience. I also like the idea of not having to replace the KDS if Linn introduce a new upgrade. It can go back to the factory / dealer rather than replace the whole unit.

Dave - Thank you for sharing your experience with power cables etc. If I do chose the KDS its good to know there are further improvements available.

I had a listen yesterday and the amount of detail from the KDS is incredible. I'm hearing new details in tracks I thought I knew really well and it certainly isn't boring or sterile! I'll listen further over the next 2 weekends before making any decisions but I'm amazed at the quality of sound coming from such a small unit and the thought of further improvements in the future with balanced connections (XLR-XLR) and a better power cable is rather appealing. The user interface is really slick too.

Russ

Another update - for anyone who is interested.

Had a good listening session today with the Linn KDS and then went back to the 272/555DR to compare.

I must say, the KDS is in a different league, as one might expect for a 16K streamer. There is much more detail coming through and the clarity is incredible. The Bass goes even deeper and is more clearly defined. Voices have more detail and more emotion and the treble is clearer too, the shimmer from cymbals is amazing. I've never heard my speakers sound this good. I'm hearing new details within songs that I just don't hear with the 272/555DR or you just don't notice because they are hidden within the mix. With certain songs I get real goosebumps and the emotion is palpable too. The music really draws you in, and its hard to come away, as you just want to carry on listening!

I'm not saying that the KDS is better than an NDS or ND555 as I haven't compared them, but for me, the KDS with my active ATC's is brilliant. I would say if you get an opportunity to have a listen to a KDS (current version) within your own system, give it a go and don't just dismiss it because of hearsay.

I will do another comparison next weekend, just to be certain, but I think I know in which direction I will be going! 

Russ

RUSST, have you tried any Chord DACs into your speakers? Hugo TT direct into your speakers is a joy to behold. Prices are low on TT at the minutes due to Hugo TT 2. Hugo TT 2 might also be worth a listen.

Halloween Man, thanks for the suggestion. No, I haven't tried any Chord DAC into my speakers but I think I'm going to go with the Linn KDS and sell my Naim 272/555DR.

Russ

Not knowing anything about the Linn Klimax DS, I did a quick search and found that the Klimax DS 3 is just a streamer (without amplification) which costs £15,800. It's not a surprise it sounds great. The 272/555PS is not too far off at £10,300. 

Ryder, yes you're right, the Linn Klimax DS is a streamer with a digital volume control that connects directly to my Active ATC's. I'm not knocking Naim at all, and the 272/555DR is fantastic at its price level. I just wanted to try the KDS in my system and compare it to the 272/555DR. It would of been easy to dismiss Linn and other manufacturers after some of the comments posted on various forums, but I believe you need to try these things in your own system and with an open mind. For me, I wanted to reduce the box count as far as possible whilst improving on the 272/555DR and with the Linn KDS I have done just that. The fact the Linn will be upgradeable in the future and with the possibility of further enhancements with a better power lead and balanced XLR connections is the icing on the cake for me.

Good choice, Russ. The easy upgrade route, for me, has been a very welcome bonus. 

Russt posted:

Ryder, yes you're right, the Linn Klimax DS is a streamer with a digital volume control that connects directly to my Active ATC's. I'm not knocking Naim at all, and the 272/555DR is fantastic at its price level. I just wanted to try the KDS in my system and compare it to the 272/555DR. It would of been easy to dismiss Linn and other manufacturers after some of the comments posted on various forums, but I believe you need to try these things in your own system and with an open mind. For me, I wanted to reduce the box count as far as possible whilst improving on the 272/555DR and with the Linn KDS I have done just that. The fact the Linn will be upgradeable in the future and with the possibility of further enhancements with a better power lead and balanced XLR connections is the icing on the cake for me.

Another upgrade option - is to keep the 272/555DR combo, but connect it to ATC SCM50 actives instead of 40s - I have them, and I can say that it is a totally different system if connected to 272. 

Without wishing to jack this thread, I've been looking at ATC SCM19a & thinking they might be a good option with a 272? I take it you can use both the din outputs to balanced inputs on the speakers??

Singlespeed posted:

Without wishing to jack this thread, I've been looking at ATC SCM19a & thinking they might be a good option with a 272? I take it you can use both the din outputs to balanced inputs on the speakers??

Currently I am trying the 272 with SCM40A and last week the SCM19A. The ATC.s accept both unbalanced and balanced connection, your dealer should be able to help out. For long cables use low capacitance cables. 

The 272/555DR was a pleasant surprise.  Maybe its the combination with the ATC.s but I find it very musical. I tried the NDX2 with the 555DR into my 252 for a few days which was excellent but I sure could live with a 272.   

jlarsson posted:

Currently I am trying the 272 with SCM40A and last week the SCM19A. The ATC.s accept both unbalanced and balanced connection, your dealer should be able to help out. For long cables use low capacitance cables. 

 Really interested in your thoughts on the 272 with 19a's jlarsson - perhaps a separate discussion thread? I'm going to get a demo of the 19a's soon ;-) 

Singlespeed posted:

I take it you can use both the din outputs to balanced inputs on the speakers??

Single 4 pin din output to 2 x L+R male XLR's.

jlarsson posted:

accept both unbalanced and balanced connection

 

Balanced only.

So care needed, as the 272 as with most Naim is unbalanced. You can have custom cables made up to connect unbalanced to balanced, by effectively grounding one of the balanced lines, certainly not ideal but workable.. and I suspect that is how one wires up ATCs to Naim NACs if ATC only accept balanced.

”Balanced cable configuration is the preferred option, however unbalanced connection is possible”. ATC user Manual.

There is a diagram in the ATC User Manual how to wire up from an unbalanced source.  But you should also read the (short) section called  ”Signal Cable Options”, which is why I recommend using the services of a good dealer.

I have been experimenting using high quality transformers to convert to a balanced feed. I am trying Lundahl and Jensen line-out transformers so far. A transformer have the advantage of providing extra isolation. But there are disadvantages - the really high qualitty ones are expensive.