New cartridge for LP12

I went "all in" and  added kore, already had lingo 2 and added krystal cart to a tt similar to yours - very happy with this combo

Kore is fantastic for the money. What's your budget? I have Hana EH. Not sure how it works with the Ekos but it sings in my Ittok. The make 4 versions EL EH SL SH. Also, great bang for the buck.

In the past few years I have used an AT 0C9 II, Dynavector 10x5, Benz Micro Ace SL and now a Dynavector 20x2L and have enjoyed all of them,  the OC9 the least and the 20x2L the most.

It all comes down to price I suppose and shopping around the 0C9 and the 10x5 are roughly the same price point I think and I prefer the 10x5 and the Ace and the 20x2 are again roughly the same price and I prefer the 20x2L.

I have never paid full price for a cartridge and have always sold them on to help pay for the next one. I found an ex dem 20x2L with less than 10 hours on it for £450 and sold my Ace SL for £350. So If you are not desperate take your time and shop around                                                                                                                                  

another Fan of Dyanvector - 10 x 5 is a lovely - upgraded to DV20x2H which has even more detail - can also give thumps up to Kore! with Cirkus

Which phonostage?

Not sure what your budget is but I would recommend you demo the Krystal - brilliant cart in the near Klimax level LP12 I heard.

Apart from it's sense of timing and rhythm, otherwise I didn't particularly warm to the OC-9 MLII much - that obvious top end and rather cool balance.  Combine it with many modern phono stages that are similar in balance and it can be just too much. I thought I had a good match with the Naim Prefix, and there was indeed much to commend it.  But, that obvious top end was still just a bit too apparent, despite all the other great stuff it was doing.  

Until one day... I had a properly run in example.  I'd say the 50 hours or so that's mentioned is a minimum. It did definitely start to change after around that time but 100 hours minimum is probably more like it. And then, it really came good.  No, it's never going to be romantic or have the midrange warmth that so many desire. But for timing, rhythm, and for getting more information than you thought possible from inner grooves or from severely band squeezed LPs, there's little to touch it at anywhere near the money. I think too many give this cart a listen, stick with it for a few months and then decide it's not for them.  Trouble is, it's too easy to give up on it before it reaches its best.

bluedog posted:

Not sure what your budget is but I would recommend you demo the Krystal - brilliant cart in the near Klimax level LP12 I heard.

Another vote for the Krystal. I'll admit to not having heard many other MCs at the same price level, but the Krystal just always sounds "right" and has, as far as I can discern, a slight bass and midrange emphasis, which is very charming (this is in comparison with my prior cartridge, an Ortofon 2M Black - which was very good in its own right, but could be a little too lean/bright on some recordings). The Krystal sounds very, very good into even modest RIAAs - I run mine into a Rega MC Fono - and brilliant into better RIIAs (e.g. Linn's own Uphorik - next on my upgrade list!).  

You have the Ekos 1 already, so why not get a rebuilt Troika?

* I'm no expert at all on the LP12, but doing my homework for a future mad decision of myself.

Ardbeg10y posted:

You have the Ekos 1 already, so why not get a rebuilt Troika?

* I'm no expert at all on the LP12, but doing my homework for a future mad decision of myself.

There is a problem with this;  Consistency.  In my experience of listening to various rebuilt Troikas, they all tend to sound different - and most importantly rather different to the original (read - not as good).  The worst of them was pretty dire with a really peaky top end that was bright to the point of a sense of distortion. It was fairly freshly rebuilt so probably needed to be run-in much more, but still it was extreme (probably a cock up so needed to go back) - it was also one of three from the same rebuilder and the others were much better here, so I guess it depends on whether you feel lucky.  Or not. 

Try some ZYX.

BP.

I use a Kiseki Blue NS if your budget will stretch to it. Fabulous cartridge on a LP 12 / Aro / Armeggedon combination.

 Regards,

Martin

Richard Dane posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

You have the Ekos 1 already, so why not get a rebuilt Troika?

* I'm no expert at all on the LP12, but doing my homework for a future mad decision of myself.

There is a problem with this;  Consistency.  In my experience of listening to various rebuilt Troikas, they all tend to sound different - and most importantly rather different to the original (read - not as good).  The worst of them was pretty dire with a really peaky top end that was bright to the point of a sense of distortion. It was fairly freshly rebuilt so probably needed to be run-in much more, but still it was extreme (probably a cock up so needed to go back) - it was also one of three from the same rebuilder and the others were much better here, so I guess it depends on whether you feel lucky.  Or not. 

Thats unfortunate to read. I got the impression that the Troika was the very cartridge from the golden Era of Naimified LP12's.

Thanks for the information.

It certainly was.  But sadly, unless you have one that's NOS and hasn't deteriorated, then it is no more.

For all that, I'm sure there are Troikas out there that have been rebuilt and sound great (just not quite like an original), it's just that it's something of a crap-shoot from what I can surmise.

Ironically enough, back in the day, the OC9 was often the de facto LP12 cart choice for those who couldn't quite stretch to a Troika and didn't want a Karma. 

Richard Dane posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

You have the Ekos 1 already, so why not get a rebuilt Troika?

* I'm no expert at all on the LP12, but doing my homework for a future mad decision of myself.

There is a problem with this;  Consistency.  In my experience of listening to various rebuilt Troikas, they all tend to sound different - and most importantly rather different to the original (read - not as good).  The worst of them was pretty dire with a really peaky top end that was bright to the point of a sense of distortion. It was fairly freshly rebuilt so probably needed to be run-in much more, but still it was extreme (probably a cock up so needed to go back) - it was also one of three from the same rebuilder and the others were much better here, so I guess it depends on whether you feel lucky.  Or not. 

This is exactly why I started reading the forum.  It's information like this that really underpins some of my auditioning and even buying decisions... genuine opinions from people who have been there & done it.

If I were considering a new cartridge, as Alley Cat is, I would find this very helpful.      But as it happens, I'm not.

Having said that, I bought my pre-loved  (read second hand)  NAC552 without auditioning, but with confidence born out of reading so many great recommendations for this preamp... and of course I was not disappointed.

So this is my way of saying "Thanks" to everyone who contributes so freely to these columns.

Ardbeg10y posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

You have the Ekos 1 already, so why not get a rebuilt Troika?

* I'm no expert at all on the LP12, but doing my homework for a future mad decision of myself.

There is a problem with this;  Consistency.  In my experience of listening to various rebuilt Troikas, they all tend to sound different - and most importantly rather different to the original (read - not as good).  The worst of them was pretty dire with a really peaky top end that was bright to the point of a sense of distortion. It was fairly freshly rebuilt so probably needed to be run-in much more, but still it was extreme (probably a cock up so needed to go back) - it was also one of three from the same rebuilder and the others were much better here, so I guess it depends on whether you feel lucky.  Or not. 

Thats unfortunate to read. I got the impression that the Troika was the very cartridge from the golden Era of Naimified LP12's.

Thanks for the information.

I have a rebuilt Troika with my Ekos 2 and it is really good.
I also have a Krystal, it has a touch of Troika but isn't near when it comes to PRaT

So I can absolutly recommend Troika.

???? Ardbeg10Y,....Just thought to write about Linn Troika rebuilt,when I saw your post,.. You had time before me ????.

???? Richard,....We have a completely different experience,in our group there are at least 12 people running with Troika rebuilt.

We send these to a firm in England,the result is very good.
One in our group tried an another company,but there was not the result so good,it is perhaps that company you think of.

Some have actually previously had Linn Krystal, but now switched to Linn Troika rebuilt.
They prefer Troika.

Krystal is "cleaner and clearer" but more impersonal.
Troika is more engaging,and pulls you into the musical "flow" in a completely different way.

I have had an original Troika,Arkiv and forward,....but have now bought two pieces of "pre-loved" Troika-house,..That I'll shall send for a "rebuilt".

These Linn Troika are now running here in active DBL systems,to active Linn systems....and everyone is very satisfied.
Also,..if you find a "Pre-loved" Troika,it's very cheap to rebuilt.
Well,well below half the price of a Linn Krystal.

Why I bought two.??
Well,the waiting time to make a rebuilt is pretty long,..I don't want my LP12 quietly for 6 months...while I'm waiting for my pick-up which is at Rebuilt.

/Peder ????

Peder, don't get me wrong, I've heard a couple of great rebuilds - and a few not so great ones, but against a perfect original "reference" they were a bit different and not as good.  They were from different rebuilders.  This was during a period when we were looking quite closely at the best carts to use on an Armageddon LP12 with Aro. We even considered doing a Naim cartridge, but there were difficulties that meant the project ground to a halt. This was the same time we experimented at length using an Ortofon SPU Royal N, which I really liked in spite of some rather glaring weaknesses.  It was also when i managed to destroy a Clearaudio Insider, but that's another story...

Anyway, that's all by the by - my point is that a rebuild is not an automatic panacea, from my experience.  But a good rebuild of a Troika certainly has the potential to be a lovely cartridge. Just maybe not quite the same as original.

The Dynavector 20x2L I mentioned earlier really is a great match with an LP12 and Naim I have used mine with both a 282/300 and now a 102/180 on two different  LP12’s with an Ittock and an FR12 the later sounds exceptional. 

I've just had my Troika rebuilt by ESCO and I'm amazed by the results. Still has all its original trademarks and didn't lose its musicality which is all I care about. 

The cartridge was given to me by a fellow member of the blue forum who got it included on a used LP12 he had bought several years ago and went straight to a cupboard. Can't thank enough for his generosity . 

Got it running on my LP12/Ekos1/Kore,/filter less Lingo1 straight into my 72 with NA 323K boards. Couldn't be happier 

Practice makes perfect and I reckon my sample is the proof of that. Simply get an old Troika as cheap as possible and then have it done by them. You won't regret it I can promise you.

Mind you I had new Troikas in the past and I'm quite familiar with them.

kota posted:

Got it running on my LP12/Ekos1/Kore,/filter less Lingo1 straight into my 72 with NA 323K boards. Couldn't be happier 

This is precisely what I dream of. Already have the 72 + 323K boards in top condition.

A simple, worldclass, but not too much boxes hifi setup ...

???? Richard wrote,...."It was also when i managed to destroy a Clearaudio Insider,but that's another story..."

Whaoo..???? destroyed a Clearaudio Insider,it was probably not your happiest moment in life.

I've probably been lucky,have never ruined a cartridge.
Anyway,..thanks for the very interesting information on Naim's previous cartridge plans.

This Linn Troika has become a real "cult cartridge",..I think it would sell well if it started to be manufactured again.

We may start a petition and send it to Linn????.

/Peder ????

I'd recommend you look at Dynavector to find a cartridge which matches your budget. DVXX 2  works wonders in my system. Look at the Carat but don't overlook the 10x5. Is your power supply up to spec? Peter showed me the stunning difference a good p/s can produce.

Another happy Troika user here. When I got it, it had fairly recently been rebuilt by ESCO and was very nice indeed. Unfortunately there was an accident which meant another rebuild was needed. This luckily coincided with the Bristol Show a few years ago when Mr A J Van den Hul was there to rebuild cartridges at a very reasonable price. Unfortunately he became unwell so he took it away and rebuilt it when he recovered back home, I have been very happy with both versions but much prefer the VdH rebuild as it is clearer and more transparent which seems to suit the LP12 to my ears. Both rebuilds tracked superbly.

So confirmation that Troika rebuilds do sound different, but I can't imagine any of them from a reputatable rebuilder sounding less than very good indeed. When you add the cost of a rebuild to the cost of a used Troika and then compare it to the cost of a comparable brand new cartridge, it's excellent value for money and not that much of a risk given the difficulty of getting decent comparative cartridge demos.

Peder posted:

???? Richard wrote,...."It was also when i managed to destroy a Clearaudio Insider,but that's another story..."

Whaoo..???? destroyed a Clearaudio Insider,it was probably not your happiest moment in life.

I was completely mortified.

We were doing a comparison between various carts (IIRC there were a couple of Dynavectors - XV1S, Te Kaitora, Orto SPU Royal N, a Lyra Helikon, NOS Troika, Benz L0.4 etc..)  Our PR guy had loaned us his Insider. I was getting it ready to mount in one of the Aro arms and as I picked it up out of the box it just fell apart into two pieces in my hand. Luckily there were witnesses and the owner was very good about it a - I think Clearaudio agreed to take responsibility (the way it broke should never have happened) and took it for repair. It certainly brought on a few grey hairs though...