New cartridge for LP12

???? Richard wrote,..."It certainly brought on a few grey hairs though..."

I can really understand this ????

Richard,..You who have tried many cartridges during this time and also later....

◾Troika,..In that we,and many others here, have written about positive impressions of Troika rebuilt.
Could it be that the quality of rebuilt,against the Troika original has become better the latest..Say two years.

Think..for many who have written here,and have experience of original Troika,thinks this rebuilt Troika as comparable.

Then,..of course the memory can fool one,if you had a NOS Troika to directly compare against, so maybe there would be a difference.
But we still seem to perceive rebuilt Troika as fantastically good.

◾Lyra Clavis mc-cartridge,..they cost 1997 as the Linn ArkivB.
Have you heard it in a Ekos or Aro,and if so... what did you think?

/Peder ????

benjy posted:

I went "all in" and  added kore, already had lingo 2 and added krystal cart to a tt similar to yours - very happy with this combo

Thanks benjy

Glad I posted this now - I wasn't even aware there was a Kore sub-chassis!  I remember when the Keel came out thinking it was ridiculously priced even if it was good so never bothered.

Michael Mccullough posted:

Kore is fantastic for the money. What's your budget? I have Hana EH. Not sure how it works with the Ekos but it sings in my Ittok. The make 4 versions EL EH SL SH. Also, great bang for the buck.

These Kore reports are very interesting!

I haven't really set a budget, but probably £500 and upwards.

Not come across the Hana cartridges before - partly why I posted as I've not bought a new cartridge for some time so am  bit out of touch.

Bob the Builder posted:

In the past few years I have used an AT 0C9 II, Dynavector 10x5, Benz Micro Ace SL and now a Dynavector 20x2L and have enjoyed all of them,  the OC9 the least and the 20x2L the most.

It all comes down to price I suppose and shopping around the 0C9 and the 10x5 are roughly the same price point I think and I prefer the 10x5 and the Ace and the 20x2 are again roughly the same price and I prefer the 20x2L.

I have never paid full price for a cartridge and have always sold them on to help pay for the next one. I found an ex dem 20x2L with less than 10 hours on it for £450 and sold my Ace SL for £350. So If you are not desperate take your time and shop around                                                                                                                                  

Nice suggestions - I'd want something better than the OC9 II to be honest so that 20x2L may well be worth considering.

antony d posted:

another Fan of Dyanvector - 10 x 5 is a lovely - upgraded to DV20x2H which has even more detail - can also give thumps up to Kore! with Cirkus

Thanks - Dynavector well worth a look it seems, and thanks for the positive comments on the Core.

Anyone tried the XX2 II ?

Christopher_M posted:

Which phonostage?

Original Linn Linto.

bluedog posted:

Not sure what your budget is but I would recommend you demo the Krystal - brilliant cart in the near Klimax level LP12 I heard.

 

Michael Mccullough posted:

Kore is fantastic for the money. What's your budget? I have Hana EH. Not sure how it works with the Ekos but it sings in my Ittok. The make 4 versions EL EH SL SH. Also, great bang for the buck.

Thanks for that - certainly one to consider - probably comparatively cheaper than the Arkiv, shame I'd have to travel to find a Linn dealer these days!

Richard Dane posted:

Apart from it's sense of timing and rhythm, otherwise I didn't particularly warm to the OC-9 MLII much - that obvious top end and rather cool balance.  Combine it with many modern phono stages that are similar in balance and it can be just too much. I thought I had a good match with the Naim Prefix, and there was indeed much to commend it.  But, that obvious top end was still just a bit too apparent, despite all the other great stuff it was doing.  

Until one day... I had a properly run in example.  I'd say the 50 hours or so that's mentioned is a minimum. It did definitely start to change after around that time but 100 hours minimum is probably more like it. And then, it really came good.  No, it's never going to be romantic or have the midrange warmth that so many desire. But for timing, rhythm, and for getting more information than you thought possible from inner grooves or from severely band squeezed LPs, there's little to touch it at anywhere near the money. I think too many give this cart a listen, stick with it for a few months and then decide it's not for them.  Trouble is, it's too easy to give up on it before it reaches its best.

I think you may well be correct Richard - it's a pretty decent cartridge at the price (and I purchased two many years ago when I thought cartridges may have become harder to procure), but I preferred the original which was stunning with my first Naim pre/power combo of NAC72/NAP 250 in the early 90's, I suspect using Naim boards in the 72 prior to getting the Linto.

That said I find the OC-9 II actually sounds extremely good via Linto>Nova - the Nova's digitisation of the analogue input does not detract in the slightest as far as I can tell and I've been buying more LPs than I have in ages, it has all the analogue vinyl characteristics I love.

The OC-9 II was not as good as the original OC-9 with that treble lift clearly evident on the frequency response graph they included which was far flatter on the original.  Not sure how the later models fare.

I remain frustrated that I trashed the original OC-9 one Christmas after too many festive drinks with a few friends around having a listening session - sadly an LP slipped from my hands and sheared the cantilever off - this is many years ago and I couldn't figure out why I had no sound coming from the LP12 until the following morning   The culprit may be even more embarrassing - a Rolf Harris 'best of' from a charity shop.

I always had a feeling that the Linn Linto was a bit bright but it seems great with the Nova.

Sadly I can't remember if I've got a new OC-9 II in storage or if I swapped a new one for an older one several years ago.

PSAN posted:

bluedog posted:

Not sure what your budget is but I would recommend you demo the Krystal - brilliant cart in the near Klimax level LP12 I heard.

Another vote for the Krystal. I'll admit to not having heard many other MCs at the same price level, but the Krystal just always sounds "right" and has, as far as I can discern, a slight bass and midrange emphasis, which is very charming (this is in comparison with my prior cartridge, an Ortofon 2M Black - which was very good in its own right, but could be a little too lean/bright on some recordings). The Krystal sounds very, very good into even modest RIAAs - I run mine into a Rega MC Fono - and brilliant into better RIIAs (e.g. Linn's own Uphorik - next on my upgrade list!).  

Thanks PSAN - the older Arkiv had great boogie factor/PRAT but was perhaps a bit overblown in the lower ranges - worked fine with some material, not with other stuff.

Great to hear many positive comments about the Krystal.

Ardbeg10y posted:

You have the Ekos 1 already, so why not get a rebuilt Troika?

* I'm no expert at all on the LP12, but doing my homework for a future mad decision of myself.

Good thought - how much do they go for these days?

Not sure how many experienced the Linn Arkiv which I got in the mid 90's I think - I really wanted an iconic Troika but they'd stopped making them, and the Arkiv was the replacement which I suspect was not quite as good or simply different - this was long before we could find such items on fleabay etc.

When I find the Arkiv (in storage somewhere) perhaps I should try it again, and even consider getting it re-tipped/refurbished - do Linn offer this I wonder?

BPhotographer posted:

Try some ZYX.

BP.

Interesting thanks - not heard of them before - precisely why I started the thread!

Arthur Lee posted:

I use a Kiseki Blue NS if your budget will stretch to it. Fabulous cartridge on a LP 12 / Aro / Armeggedon combination.

 Regards,

Martin

Always hankered after a Kiseki or Koetsu cartridge - the hardest thing with cartridges is deciding if you buy blind on reputation or try to find a similar setup to listen as demo models of expensive cartridges are few and far between these days (not sure it was ever easy which is why I just went with the Arkiv as it was Linn's top model at the time).

Richard Dane posted:

 

.....

Ironically enough, back in the day, the OC9 was often the de facto LP12 cart choice for those who couldn't quite stretch to a Troika and didn't want a Karma. 

Thinking about it, I suspect I had an original Akito on the LP12 when I got the OC-9 around the time of the 72/250.

Suspect I upgraded Akito > Ekos then later added the Arkiv after the Troika had been discontinued.

Alley Cat posted:

Good thought - how much do they go for these days?

 

 

It varies but the total cost of S/H Troika and rebuild was around £600 a couple of years ago. Bear in mind that if you are plannning on a rebuild (and you should!) then the condtion of the Troika is not important within reason.

Having said that, if you have an Archiv I would just get that rebuilt probably for £400ish. Looking at the new price of say a Krystal that is a third of the cost. I just don't have it in me to spend so much more on something that is essentially a consumable with little resale value and extremely vulnerable to damage.

Pev posted:

Alley Cat posted:

Good thought - how much do they go for these days?

 

 

It varies but the total cost of S/H Troika and rebuild was around £600 a couple of years ago. Bear in mind that if you are plannning on a rebuild (and you should!) then the condtion of the Troika is not important within reason.

Having said that, if you have an Archiv I would just get that rebuilt probably for £400ish. Looking at the new price of say a Krystal that is a third of the cost. I just don't have it in me to spend so much more on something that is essentially a consumable with little resale value and extremely vulnerable to damage.

Yes, I've wondered about getting the Arkiv refurbished/re-tipped but I've always felt that would never be like the original, perhaps I'm wrong, but having never tried a re-tipping service etc I'd be uncertain who to use.

Sorry,...I don't know why the text was so big in the post above.

/Peder ????

Alley Cat posted:

Yes, I've wondered about getting the Arkiv refurbished/re-tipped but I've always felt that would never be like the original, perhaps I'm wrong, but having never tried a re-tipping service etc I'd be uncertain who to use.

True it will not be exactly like the original  but that ship has sailed. Given the difficulty in listening before you buy, getting your Arkiv refurbished is a lower risk than jumping ship to an unknown at 3 times the price or more. The rebuild is unlikely to completely change the sound - the difference between the ESCO and VdH rebuilds was noticable but not night and day; the essential character was maintained. I'd happily use either in future. 

Peder posted:

Sorry,...I don't know why the text was so big in the post above.

/Peder ????

One of the ones PEV mentions?

Just to add, one of the reasons I'm thinking about changing is I'm suspicious the cantilever on the OC-9 II is slightly off centre.  Hard to judge to be honest.

Perhaps it could do with another thread, but how in general would people determine if an MC cartridge tip is truly worn?

Simply go on how it sounds?  How long you've had it and estimated hours? Visual inspection?

I truly suspect many of us use cartridges well beyond their best as the sound will change so gradually.

Ultimately I suspect a proper examination by a good dealer would be key.

Alley Cat posted:

Ultimately I suspect a proper examination by a good dealer would be key.

Yes

I had an OC9 wear out and believe me it didn't need a dealer to tell me it went from sounding normal to sounding like it had dust on it all of the time it wasn't really a gradual thing.  All you need is a decent jeweller's loupe or better still a usb magnifying camera and you can see for yourself.

Richard Dane posted:

We were doing a comparison between various carts (IIRC there were a couple of Dynavectors - XV1S, Te Kaitora, Orto SPU Royal N, a Lyra Helikon, NOS Troika, Benz L0.4 etc..)  

Hi Richard,

Out of curiosity -- what was the winner?

ATB,

Joe

Joe, for me, I really liked the NOS Troika, but I found the SPU Royal N really good to, in a different way that was rather unique compared to the others.  So much so I bought one for myself.

Alley Cat posted:

Ardbeg10y posted:

You have the Ekos 1 already, so why not get a rebuilt Troika?

* I'm no expert at all on the LP12, but doing my homework for a future mad decision of myself.

Good thought - how much do they go for these days?

Not sure how many experienced the Linn Arkiv which I got in the mid 90's I think - I really wanted an iconic Troika but they'd stopped making them, and the Arkiv was the replacement which I suspect was not quite as good or simply different - this was long before we could find such items on fleabay etc.

When I find the Arkiv (in storage somewhere) perhaps I should try it again, and even consider getting it re-tipped/refurbished - do Linn offer this I wonder?

Back in the day I had a couple of Troikas, followed by an Arkiv. I always felt that the Arkiv was, at best, a sideways move. It tracked better than the Troika, and was maybe better in terms of the usual hi-fi criteria, but I found it cooler and less engaging. I never heard the Arkiv B, though it had a good reputation. But it wasn’t until the Akiva came out that I felt I finally had a cartridge that had no intrusive shortcomings.