NAP 300 has introduced too much bass

i would say that you are experiencing the shortcomings of the Superuniti. A system of that calibre needs a better source, and at least as importantly, a better preamp than the SU has. I'm trying hard to resist using the M word here, but.......

Chris is bang on here.  Remember the Pirelli ads - "Power's nothing without control"? There's a reason why the pre-amp is called a NAC - Naim-Audio-Control.  It is the pre-amp that exerts the control. The better the pre-amp, the more it is able to best control the power of the power amp.  

And of course, all of this assumes a top quality source. Without that, all bets are off. So, substitute a better source and a better pre-amp and you'll find the NAP300 works much more effectively. Simple system hierarchy at work. 

Oh, that's a shame.

Before buying the NAP300 I did try a demo using a NAP 250dr and that didn't upset the tonal balance. I just thought, "in for a penny in for a pound" and opted for the 300.

For a relatively modest sum you could trade the SU for a used 272. The SCM 40 is a large speaker capable of powerful bass and maybe it’s simply too much for the room. Being under driven by the SU may have masked that. Even with a 272 you’d be in M territory, which a power supply would mitigate. But that’s more expense of course. 

Roog, are you planning to keep the SU as a front end, or is this a short term measure until you upgrade the rest of your system? A 272 would be a relatively cheap move to improve things, but to get some sort of balance back in the system in the long term, you would at least need to add a PSU to that at a later date, or move to separates. Perhaps a 250 would be a better move at this stage?

I experienced the same thing with a fairly decent source LP12 and a fairly decent pre Nac 282 into Nap 300 >>Dynaudio Contour 3.4's.  

Perhaps it will calm down,  what size room is your system in?  

Try moving the speakers.

FangfossFlyer posted:

Try moving the speakers.

That's what I would try, too, e.g. moving them further away from the rear and/or side walls. 

How old are the 300s are they due for a service?

Thank you all for your replies.

The SU is a temporary source situation, but given that I know that others have followed the same path i was just curious whether the symptoms i am experiencing should be expected.

Agreed, a 272 would be a step in the right direction, although I was waiting for its replacement to come along  :0)

Playing my modest vinyl front end through the same system does not generate the issue, perhaps this is because it is inherently fairly bass light. 

Room is 6m x 3.5m with typical modern housing ceiling height, 2.5m perhaps?

Current speaker position (for several months) facing across the room is better than it was and this was hard fought for :0)

I am still hoping that it might settle down, but as an interim (I can't afford to change any fundamental black boxes right now) , I may try some other speaker cables  I have 'in stock' as I think the NAC A5 did increase bass at their time of fitting.

I shall see what happens.

Perhaps I should play music with less bass in the first place. :0)

Or play music with more bass to get used to it ????

HiFiman posted:

How old are the 300s are they due for a service?

 

The age of the amp did cross my mind, my 300 is from 2005. I bought it aware that I might get it dr'ed and serviced in the future, just not right now!

Its just that the Mids and Hi's sound really good so I did'nt suspect a problem with the amp condition.

In fact, Tidal tracks from Yello 'Toy' which I played last night sounded stunning, (lifted my spirits that bit)

It might be a disaster if the dr'ing added more bass. 

I own the same speakers and they do shift a lot of bass energy. It's possible the 300 is driving the speakers properly for the first time and the increased bass has highlighted a room acoustics issue. Personally, my view is that you might have been better off trading your SU in for Nova, SN2 (if analog source), or 250 + 272.

Try positioning the speakers so that they are at least 2ft from the rear wall or chimney breast (measuring from centre front of tweeter to wall) and at least 3ft from side walls (measuring from side of cabinet to wall). The further away from corners and room boundaries the less bass. Same goes for your listening position, make sure you are seated well away (at least 50cm between wall and ears) from corners and room boundaries.

Here's a very informative video on speaker placement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...=3&v=8b1W7QgqhR8

Several things with regards to adding NAP 300DR.

It does benefit from a very good source and a capable NAC. I'm sorry to say, but SuperUniti is not in that league.

NAP 300 is most often paired with NAC 252 or NAC 282. It's also apparently very happy being driven by NAC 552 (have not heard this combination myself, so cannot offer first-hand experience).

NAP 300 tends to be more flexible than NAP 250 and easier to pair with speakers.

In my case replacing NAP 250DR with NAP 300DR required a small adjustment to speakers' positioning.
Bass control is even more phenomenal, but a lot of it is down to the pre-amp I use.

Halloween Man posted:

I own the same speakers and they do shift a lot of bass energy. It's possible the 300 is driving the speakers properly for the first time and the increased bass has highlighted a room acoustics issue. Personally, my view is that you might have been better off trading your SU in for Nova or 250 + 272.

Try positioning the speakers so that they are at least 2ft from the rear wall or chimney breast (measuring from centre front of tweeter to wall) and at least 3ft from side walls (measuring from side of cabinet to wall). The further away from corners and room boundaries the less bass. Same goes for your listening position, make sure you are seated well away (at least 50cm between wall and ears) from corners and room boundaries.

Here's a very informative video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...=3&v=8b1W7QgqhR8

 

Hi Halloween Man, 

You might be right in respect of the 300 driving the speaker 'right' for the first time. Although I did experience the same speakers in a demo powered by other powerful amplifiers including the D'agostino Progression (just for fun, you understand) and that did not introduce bass. 

Small changes to speaker positioning and angles can make a big difference.  It's worth investigating. There are also a number of ways of tuning the ports, if applicable. With the best will in the world, a speaker can't be built which works by default in every possible room. And when you add a new power amp, you can effectively end up with new speakers.

The bass in our lounge is very easy to overdrive. The 300 should be relatively grippy and controlled. Unfortunately, without a home try out before purchase, nothing is certain.

Symptoms described by OP are identical to those which I experienced last year. Paired with 272, 500DR PS and ProAc K6 speakers, the 300DR produced overwhelming, bloated, flabby and unbearable bass with at least 20% of my music. Replacing it with a 250DR (on recommendation of Stewart Tyler from ProAc and a Naim employee via my dealer) solved all the major issues at a stroke. The 250 controls the speakers beautifully. Further, quite incredible, improvements came a few months ago when I replaced the ProAc spikes with Stillpoints Ultra SS. I now have a system which thrills me every day, and which I cannot imagine being able to improve upon (although I will undoubtedly demo the 272’s successor in the fullness of time).

In my experience the 300DR is not automatically the ultimate panacea to all hifi situations, regardless of reviews, hype or forum band wagon jumping! I know it may be stating the obvious, but the only upgrade worth having is that which works for your ears, in your room, with the rest of your setup. Good luck.

As others have pointed out, your best bet in the short term is to re-position your speakers to try to get a better balance.

Your room sounds ok size wise and it may well all settle down but as has been pointed out I think the pre amp section may be letting you down.  An ideal sitution would be to borrow a 272 or 282, 82, 252 or 52 to put between the SU (if it can just be used as a source) and the 300 to see if that helps this would give some idea if a better pre would help.

Indeed, a bit of speaker tweaking is free, (apart from the disquiet it will instil in the boss) and shall not be overlooked.

And yes if a home demo could have been arranged this may very well have persuaded me that a 250 was quite enough. Greed got the best of me.

I drew the line at asking my dealer if i could borrow a 300dr as i knew, that he knew, that i would not be buying a new one from him!  Perhaps I should be less inhibited in future.

Bob the Builder posted:

Your room sounds ok size wise and it may well all settle down but as has been pointed out I think the pre amp section may be letting you down.  An ideal sitution would be to borrow a 272 or 282, 82, 252 or 52 to put between the SU (if it can just be used as a source) and the 300 to see if that helps this would give some idea if a better pre would help.

Yep, I think this is a plan BtB, im sure I can persuade my dealer to lend me one of those. It might at least show if this is a significant factor.  

as a regulated amplifier it is now 13 years old, and I guess.... maybe in need of a service...?

how is the 300 plugged into mains? Direct into wall socket?

Is the switch on the SU set to chassis? are there any sources of mains noise such as mobile chargers in the same electrical sockets as the SU?

one way to improve performance of SU preamp is to feed it better quality power through a Naim power line. But borrow before you buy.

How is the Superuniti feeding the NAP 300? are these genuine naim cables?

Hope it works out for you.

ROOG posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

Your room sounds ok size wise and it may well all settle down but as has been pointed out I think the pre amp section may be letting you down.  An ideal sitution would be to borrow a 272 or 282, 82, 252 or 52 to put between the SU (if it can just be used as a source) and the 300 to see if that helps this would give some idea if a better pre would help.

Yep, I think this is a plan BtB, im sure I can persuade my dealer to lend me one of those. It might at least show if this is a significant factor.  

There is no line out on a Superuniti, so you cannot run it as a source into a separate preamp. So you would really need to upgrade the source at the same time, or just get a 272. 

I am with HH here a sh 272 preferably with a power supply would do the trick......