New NDX2 vs the old NDS

The review in Hifi news and record reviews puts it on par depending on how you read into the article....NDX2 more detailed than NDS, but less boogie. I find this article a little odd, was expecting the opposite?

had a call with my dealer about NDX2. He told me that NDX2 with PSU beats NDS by a mile in authority and details.  He thinks that this will be the real star in the portfolio...(he didn't listen to NDX2 without PSU). Anyway--if it's that good, I will be on the Naim track again!

with XPS DR or 555 DR?

It will be interesting to hear both players with a 555. There appears to be a number of NDS becoming available at NDX2 price. 

it was the XPS DR they used in the demo

T38.45 posted:

had a call with my dealer about NDX2. He told me that NDX2 with PSU beats NDS by a mile in authority and details.  He thinks that this will be the real star in the portfolio...(he didn't listen to NDX2 without PSU). Anyway--if it's that good, I will be on the Naim track again!

An NDS is always used with a PSU. So I am guessing what you mean to say is that all things being equal, if you swap a NDS for an NDX2, it's gonna be better.

hoping to hear the NDX2 this week, at Cymbiosis demo day but not confirmed by NAIM yet if NDX2 will be avialable. I currently have NDX (2014) in my system

of course keen to hear it,  so my thougths are keep current NDX and add a 555 or new NDX2 or NDS/555

lots of options

i think i would start with NDX2 without PSU and later on add PSU. It's bad that ND555 needs 555er power, old NDS could run with XPS... anyway, let's see how it hits the market ;-)

antony d posted:

hoping to hear the NDX2 this week, at Cymbiosis demo day but not confirmed by NAIM yet if NDX2 will be avialable. I currently have NDX (2014) in my system

of course keen to hear it,  so my thougths are keep current NDX and add a 555 or new NDX2 or NDS/555

lots of options

Did not get the impression that the demo at Loud and Clear, Glasgow last week heard the NDX2. Hope you are luckier.

in a blind test 99% could not  tell any difference

antony d posted:

hoping to hear the NDX2 this week, at Cymbiosis demo day but not confirmed by NAIM yet if NDX2 will be avialable. I currently have NDX (2014) in my system

of course keen to hear it,  so my thougths are keep current NDX and add a 555 or new NDX2 or NDS/555

lots of options

I was in a very similar  situation running a NDX but with a XPSdr power supply in fact I did have a NDX2 on order with a view to update to a ND555 at a later date.

After having several conversations with my dealer it was suggested that I swap the XPS for a 555PS in readiness for the NDX2 or eventually a  ND555 so a home demo was arranged.

I liked the improvements the 555 brought to the system the installation engineer said would you like to hear a ND555 as I have brought our demo unit with me. I thought it would be rude not to take him up on this kind offer.

How good is the ND555? well put it this way the NDX2 has been cancelled and the NDX and XPS are being taken in part exchange for a new ND555 and 555PS long term resistance would have been futile.

I am interested to hear the ND5 XS2, as apparently there has been a real focus on SQ performance compared to its earlier incarnation  by stripping back the thrills from its elder siblings that otherwise can detract... really allowing the SQ performance to shine..

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I am interested to hear the ND5 XS2, as apparently there has been a real focus on SQ performance compared to its earlier incarnation  by stripping back the thrills from its elder siblings that otherwise can detract... really allowing the SQ performance to shine..

I was thinking along similar lines, and all the more so after discussing the matter with a certain member of Naim’s staff, who agreed that (if using an offboard DAC) he wouldn’t bother with NDX2, an ND5XS2 would be all you’d need. 

Indeed Chris, and it’s internal DAC and filter stages were pretty impressive  too apparently as more could be spent here and more space provided for it internally from the budget that otherwise would have been used for the display and all it’s electronics... and one of the messages we got is that space is paramount in gaining top SQ.

Watching this thread with interest, as I currently run NDX into nDAC, with XPS powering the ndac. Am trying to arrange home demos and will report any findings here. Can’t stretch to an ND555, but am very curious as to what benefits ndx2 or nd5xs2 might bring...

paul 

What about ND5XS with a 555DR?

Hello

I have an NDX>DAC V1 now and happy with it.  Did decide to upgrade to the NDX2 to get the latest Naim hardware based on Naim Faith and I plan to have the NDX2 for a long time (Probably until I listen to an ND555/PSU/& My boat comes in which may be never).  I still plan to go preampless and use the DAC V1 for volume control. 

Bailyhill

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Indeed Chris, and it’s internal DAC and filter stages were pretty impressive  too apparently as more could be spent here and more space provided for it internally from the budget that otherwise would have been used for the display and all it’s electronics... and one of the messages we got is that space is paramount in gaining top SQ.

It is the direction I am potentially heading. An ND5 XS2 (or perhaps an Auralic Aries G1 for similar money) hooked up to a top DAC could be the ticket and be better future proofed. If streaming develops (as it most certainly will) change the streamer for a couple of grand. If a fabulous new DAC becomes available then you can upgrade just that. For the same cost as an NDX2 and XPS DR you could have an XS2 and a DAVE. Worth a listen - but I bet that an XS2 on its own will provide 90% of what most of us are looking for. I’ll be surprised if it does not blow the old NDX(bare) out of the water.

@bailyhill, I don’t  understand how you are going to go preampless with the NDX2. 

Anyway in Naim systems I think you’ll find the preamp is the hear of the systems and sets the overall performance envelope... especially with Naim amps... so it usual makes sense to get the best preamp (or hybrid preamp) your budget will allow.

@Alan Willby , I suspect the NDX2 will be an advance on the NDX, but I really doubt it will be a seismic change as you suggest, it will a case of a progressive improvement and greater integration flexibility. The NDX bare  is a very good streamer with great PRAT and bounce.. I do however find it lacks a little definition compared to what I prefer, but then I do use a 552, but it’s sound is certainly enjoyable and has a great feel to it.

At Bristol Jason’s view was that the NDX2 would get pretty close to the NDS. That said I’m not sure if that was meant with or without PS on the NDX2; I’d assumed with XPS2 as that will be its natural partner.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

@bailyhill, I don’t  understand how you are going to go preampless with the NDX2. 

Anyway in Naim systems I think you’ll find the preamp is the hear of the systems and sets the overall performance envelope... especially with Naim amps... so it usual makes sense to get the best preamp (or hybrid preamp) your budget will allow.

Hello Simon

Thanks for the reply.  I realize that a preamp is the heart of most systems.  If I had normal speakers, I would probably go that way.  I am driving one ohm ribbons which work well with only certain amps--unconventional I realize.  I also only stream or rip cds, so no phono system.  I will feed the NDX2 into the DAC-V1 and it will control volume and the DAC function.  I realize that this bypasses the DAC in the NDX2.  I am sonically happy with the NDX feeding the DAC V1, so if I gain nothing sonically, I will be happy.  I love the other features in the NDX2 enough to make the move.  I am operating on Naim Faith a little bit on this one, as my dealer had not heard the NDX2 to compare to the NDX.  I will post my results shortly for the community--as Elon Musk says, "Sooooooon".

Bailyhill

Thanks for your reply... I hope you don’t mind me saying it sounds perverse to feed the SPDIF output of the NDX2 into a DACV1... that is quite a performance drop... good though the DACV1 is for its money it’s not really aimed to compete with the NDX2.... it’s aimed more at computer audio and replacing  DACs built into many computers providing a bit step forward in the computer audio space.... but clearly your choice....

I agree. I used to own a Dac V1 and it’s very good but not in NDX performance territory. 

Well interesting I'm hopeful of seeing, perhaps hearing a NDX2  this coming Thursday at the great Dr's establishment along with the ND555. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Thanks for your reply... I hope you don’t mind me saying it sounds perverse to feed the SPDIF output of the NDX2 into a DACV1... that is quite a performance drop... good though the DACV1 is for its money it’s not really aimed to compete with the NDX2.... it’s aimed more at computer audio and replacing  DACs built into many computers providing a bit step forward in the computer audio space.... but clearly your choice....

Hello Simon

Thanks for your reply.  My thinking was as follows.  First my constraints:  Naim Only; No Phono, streaming only, looking to do lots of streaming in the future and build towards the hi rez stuff that will no doubt come in the future.  That said, the cost in the US of a Naim DAC V1 and a NDX2  is at $2700 + $7500 = $10,200.  Now the alternate would be a ND5 XS2, NAC 202 and a PSU (HiCap)  for $3500+$3800+$2600 = $9900.  So which sounds better--advice I got was to go with the DAC V1.  The 202 does not list on the Naim web site its digital capability, so probably great for phono system or other.

The NAC 272 is a good buy at $6500, but while it does DFA64, it does not at this time support 128, no 2.8 no 5.6--possible with a future update.  Other options are the NAC 252 at $12,000 + $7700 + streamer--way over the budget.  Could also go NAC 282 at $9000 + $1700 Flatcap + Streamer---again way over budget. 

So it comes down to music is a passion, but not number one, and I pursue other things that take big bucks.  So when my ship comes in, I will look hard at a conventional system with preamp--its just a lot of money for the function of a volume control--but it would allow me to access the DAC and analog sections of the NDX2--which would be a win.  I suspect that if I PSU the NDX2, I may get most of that anyway. 

Bailyhill