Update to the 272

spacey posted:

272 disappeared for naim website so presumably replacement out soon....

It's still their this morning  

If it disappeared, it was only temporary, because it’s there now. 

It's been said before...and I'll say it again now

Just because something is discontinued doesn't suddenly make it broken!!

And the 272 can be "upgraded" with other companies products...just feed it though a Hugo or TT is one answer...or whatever the current favourite dac is

I'm pretty sure someone on the forum spoke to Naim at a recent event (Munich? Bristol?) and got a response indicating that a streaming preamp at a grade above the 272 was not on the cards as they felt they had gone as far as they could go with putting things in one box from a design compromise perspective. So while a 372 may not be around the corner some form of 272 mk 2 may not be ruled out.

Well, if the NDX2 is approaching the NDS in terms of performance, a 272/2 should be sufficiently better than the current version that a 372 is not required. 

There is sufficient room for technical improvement to allow for development of a 272-2.

First, the new steaming board.

Second, improving the electromagnetic isolation between components, particularly from the power supplies.  This can be used to get the performance when running on it's internal PSU closer to the performance obtained when powered by an external PSU.  This development will also improve performance with external PSUs, but to a lesser degree than that of a 'bare' unit.

Third, possibly to provide separation of input selection control of the digital and analogue sides (i.e. separation of control between the streamer and the analogue preamp) so that a different DAC can be inserted 'in the loop'.

Whether this happens before or after the next development in the analogue pre-amps is another question.

intriguing thing for me is whether the replacement (I think there will be one) will be essentially a Nova without the power amp, optimised layout and with option for external PSU - i.e. using the digital preamp or will be a, say, 202 preamp with much of a NDX2 inside. The former would be more similar to the SU/272 hierarchy and presumably a lower cost development than going with an analogue preamp.

I'm keeping my powder dry. I won't buy a separate streamer/psu/preamp/psu but would be willing to relegate my SU to a second system (too good to sell at second hand prices) and possibly go NAC-N/PSU into my existing 250. Could be a second hand 272 but want to see if NAIM offer me a new platform option. 

If there is a new 272 I’m sure it would be a lot more than an optimised Nova. The 272 is a different, and far better, creature than the SU and one would expect the same relationship to be maintained. 

hungryhalibut posted:

If there is a new 272 I’m sure it would be a lot more than an optimised Nova. The 272 is a different, and far better, creature than the SU and one would expect the same relationship to be maintained. 

I'm happy to believe you that it performs much better but from a design and technology point of view how is itso different? I do appreciate that board layout and PSUs are key to Naim designs but I don't think that counnts as "very different" from a development point of view? 

From my perspective the ideal 372 would be: 1) no internal PS but connected to a 555 DR feeding the digital and analog circuits separately; 2) streaming/dac with a level of performance equivalent to NDS; 3) pre-amplifier section equivalent to 282 or 252.  In summary, the circuitry of a NDS + 252 in one single box, plus a 555 DR to power it.  Two boxes that would replace four.

Yup, that would be perfect. 

I think there is a market for 272/2 and 372/555PS

272/2 for new entry to naim , less box lovers, unity product upgrade etc

And 372 for current 200/282/272 owners, less box lovers with budget

The other potential two box upgrade from the Nova might be the NDX2 with an updated integrated amp in the styling and app integration for volume control included? Not sure how that would compare with an upgraded preamp/streamer and a power amp?

Mike, the Supernait 2 has a Remote In so you could connect the NDX2 and SN2 together and then apply system automation so the App could then control the volume on the SN2.  As a 2 box system I'd imagine the NDX2 and Superanit 2 have the potential to be something rather special.

Richard Dane posted:

Mike, the Supernait 2 has a Remote In so you could connect the NDX2 and SN2 together and then apply system automation so the App could then control the volume on the SN2.  As a 2 box system I'd imagine the NDX2 and Superanit 2 have the potential to be something rather special.

Dang. Could be a dreaded upgrade path with the Nova going to the media room in place of the older UC2/NAP100 and driving the Totem Hawks more.......

Just from a design philosophy point of view, I've always been intrigued by NDX/SN vs 272/250. I THINK Naim in principle like to emphasise very high quality PSUs mechanically and electromagnetically separate from sensitive source and  preamp circuits. Clearly both set ups compromise this. However once you add PSUs you can get the 272 preamp circuits away from big transformers which is not possible with the SN. Seems that 272 + PSU is closer to Naim philosophy?

BTW I totally get the fact that execution may trump philosophy and only your ears count!

for now I'll continue to enjoy 272/555 .... but I'm hopeful that a higher X72 comes along in the next couple of years..... still got about half of the Naim 5 years support remaining.

I've a agreed a 2 box limit with SWMBO , which was how I got the ATC 40 actives approved and thru the door and into the front room.  which limits options unless I look at KDSM or DAVE