Naim Audio New Analogue?

Once you have DR what eise is there that would bring a power amp “bang up to date”?

Mike Hughes posted:

Once you have DR what eise is there that would bring a power amp “bang up to date”?

 

Just look at what linn are producing....

New Naim amps will have to conform to whatever energy efficiency legislation is in force at the time, and it is possible that this might cramp their style a bit. The Statement and new Uniti players have already has small SMPSs added to keep them alive when in standby mode without consuming much power, in order to comply with legislation. It is very likely that power consumption legislation will become tighter in future, possibly even to the point where the big fat toroidal PSUs Naim use are outlawed, so it could be that they keep the current models in production for as long as they can. Linn, of course, have already made the change, so they have a considerable head start in using this technology in their amps. 

I remember talking to Roy George back in about 1981 or 2, asking whether they had considered using SMPS - he seemed interested (I mentioned it because the company I was then working for were developing SMPSs for some of their equipment), but dubious.  I guess they have never felt that this technology is as good as analogue PS - and there are good reasons for this, I think.   Main problem is noise - but if you use a high-enough frequency that shouldn't be a problem, and shielding and distance should mitigate this.  Switchers are more complex to design, of course.  But much more efficient.

Bob

lots of very good companies now in the LP12 market, Tangerine Audio & Tiger paw come to mind

The new Lingo 4 is superb which I use on my LP12, and the Aro arm has a new kid on the block tiger Paw Javelin, have to say I am happy with stageline but would look to invest now deck is fully on song

prefer they work on streamers which is now launced - I am looking at NDX2 and the recent DR uprade to my 300 is outstanding

Mike Hughes posted:

Once you have DR what eise is there that would bring a power amp “bang up to date”?

 

Obviously thats that then... Calling all amp designers you better just shut up shop because Naim Audio DR cannot be bettered.

Believe it or not there are those of those that don't believe the DR is the be all and end all.

antony d posted:

Bob

lots of very good companies now in the LP12 market, Tangerine Audio & Tiger paw come to mind

The new Lingo 4 is superb which I use on my LP12, and the Aro arm has a new kid on the block tiger Paw Javelin, have to say I am happy with stageline but would look to invest now deck is fully on song

prefer they work on streamers which is now launced - I am looking at NDX2 and the recent DR uprade to my 300 is outstanding

But those streamers will still need an analogue amp won't they? Or do you think Naim should be looking at new technologies? Are we saying that Naim just stick with what they have analogue wise and concentrate on just the source the streaming platform like Linn?

Most Linn amplifiers of recently heard sound crap, I hope not Naim will jump that wagon

Linn are, and have allways been strong om sources

Quite possible Naim are launching new amp range soon, will any of these be made (or partly made) in far east apart from Muso stuff ?

I have zero interest in streaming and believe this is where they have focus and ongoing issues. Yesterdays flagship soon become old hat.

would have though having another go at active in partnership with Focal might be a richer area for innovation. 

Digital preamps as per Nova (and 272 replacement??????) combined with digital domain crossovers and multichannel power amps (potentially speaker mounted) seem to make a lot of sense from an engineering perspective.

could also implement phono stage in the digital domain within the preamp to reduce box count.

I know lots of naimophiles like nothing more than twin stacks of black boxes but there is also a slice of the Naim market that would like fewer boxes.

I've never thought that amps combined with speakers are much cop for serious sound quality or for upgrades.  Engineering wise it compromises the speaker and amp.

Guinnless posted:

I've never thought that amps combined with speakers are much cop for serious sound quality or for upgrades.  Engineering wise it compromises the speaker and amp.

I suspect ATC would disagree. Removing the passive crossover components between amp and voice coil and having amplifiers matched to the demands of the individual drivers seem to make a lot of sense to me.

James

JedT posted:

would have though having another go at active in partnership with Focal might be a richer area for innovation. 

Digital preamps as per Nova (and 272 replacement??????) combined with digital domain crossovers and multichannel power amps (potentially speaker mounted) seem to make a lot of sense from an engineering perspective.

could also implement phono stage in the digital domain within the preamp to reduce box count.

I know lots of naimophiles like nothing more than twin stacks of black boxes but there is also a slice of the Naim market that would like fewer boxes.

That feature set exists. It's called Linn.

Naim can of course change direction and go for fewer boxes with digital crossovers and digital phono stages and so forth. But the design decisions made up to now make Naim sound like Naim. They can do all of those things you mention and maybe even do it well - but it is unlikely any of the current customers will go with them. Even the single box Uniti customers. They too chose Naim over other options like Linn and Devialet. If Naim changed direction and the design choices caused them to sound like something that Naim has not been up to now, there would be no reason for anyone who is currently a happy Naim owner to remain so.

That's not always a bad thing but it doesn't make a lot of sense either. For those that want Naim to be something else, the simple answer is don't buy Naim. 

I moved away from Linn when they went to far into a direction I didn't like. They also knew what they were doing and seem to enjoy more success now but I am sure they were aware their change in fortunes after a period of tough financial times would require alienating most of their existing customers and acquiring a different (more lucrative) customer base.

For the amplification chain, I suspect Naim know their bread is buttered on the full on analogue side for the foreseeable future. There is not a lot to add in terms of improvements to their phono stages. Unless of course they come up with a 500 series floaty Superline. Doubtless there would be a few customers who'd buy such an item and yet another 555PS to go with it 

I would love to see R&D investment into a Superline+ as I suspect it can do even more but I doubt a business case could be justified.

Meanwhile I will keep grooving to my Superline.

Richard

james n posted:

Guinnless posted:

I've never thought that amps combined with speakers are much cop for serious sound quality or for upgrades.  Engineering wise it compromises the speaker and amp.

I suspect ATC would disagree. Removing the passive crossover components between amp and voice coil and having amplifiers matched to the demands of the individual drivers seem to make a lot of sense to me.

James

That's what they sell so I'm sure they would disagree.  Naim put a lot of effort into reducing microphony both internally and with Powerline and Hiline cables.

Would my 250 sound better, worse or the same if I placed it on top of a running Diesel engine ?

Guinnless posted:

james n posted:

Guinnless posted:

I've never thought that amps combined with speakers are much cop for serious sound quality or for upgrades.  Engineering wise it compromises the speaker and amp.

I suspect ATC would disagree. Removing the passive crossover components between amp and voice coil and having amplifiers matched to the demands of the individual drivers seem to make a lot of sense to me.

James

That's what they sell so I'm sure they would disagree.  Naim put a lot of effort into reducing microphony both internally and with Powerline and Hiline cables.

Would my 250 sound better, worse or the same if I placed it on top of a running Diesel engine ?

Putting a power amp in or near a speaker cabinet obviously involves a design compromise. But passive crossovers are also a huge compromise that is completely eliminated by doing this. Plenty of manufacturers have done it, including Dynaudio, ATC, Linn, Kef and others. Like many things in life, designing good hifi is never black and white, it’s about finding the right compromises to make the product work well at its price point. 

I like the fact that Naim chose to make the DR element of their analogue systems an upgrade as opposed to limiting the new technology to a box upgrade with a new model number. Hopefully, if they develop new analogue technologies these will be offered as an upgrade option.

Bob the Builder posted:

Believe it or not there are those of those that don't believe the DR is the be all and end all.

Don't say that!! My dealer has just, in the last hour, collected my NAP500 and will be taking it to Salisbury tomorrow for the DR upgrade.

That said, they've loaned me a NAP200 which is doing a very respectable job of driving my NBLs.

JedT posted:

would have though having another go at active in partnership with Focal might be a richer area for innovation. 

Digital preamps as per Nova (and 272 replacement??????) combined with digital domain crossovers and multichannel power amps (potentially speaker mounted) seem to make a lot of sense from an engineering perspective.

could also implement phono stage in the digital domain within the preamp to reduce box count.

I know lots of naimophiles like nothing more than twin stacks of black boxes but there is also a slice of the Naim market that would like fewer boxes.

Nobody is talking about stack and stacks of boxes I have a very respectable 2 full size 1 half size and a Napsc hidden away and a digital phono stage NO, NO and NO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guinnless posted:

I've never thought that amps combined with speakers are much cop for serious sound quality or for upgrades.  Engineering wise it compromises the speaker and amp.

Agreed 100% as Chrissu points out again this is a compromise and one driven by the boxophobics. You will all get your way no doubt you will have wireless streams transmitted wirelessly to hidden speakers driven by tiny D class amps playing sterile music into your sterile living rooms.

james n posted:

Guinnless posted:

I've never thought that amps combined with speakers are much cop for serious sound quality or for upgrades.  Engineering wise it compromises the speaker and amp.

I suspect ATC would disagree. Removing the passive crossover components between amp and voice coil and having amplifiers matched to the demands of the individual drivers seem to make a lot of sense to me.

James

But placing a big transformer next to a big magnet cannot be good can it. Otherwise why are we told to to keep our speakers away from our amplifiers?

Bob the Builder posted:

james n posted:

Guinnless posted:

I've never thought that amps combined with speakers are much cop for serious sound quality or for upgrades.  Engineering wise it compromises the speaker and amp.

I suspect ATC would disagree. Removing the passive crossover components between amp and voice coil and having amplifiers matched to the demands of the individual drivers seem to make a lot of sense to me.

James

But placing a big transformer next to a big magnet cannot be good can it. Otherwise why are we told to to keep our speakers away from our amplifiers?

Because they likely want to sell you some Lumina cables

Your thread puzzles me, Bob.

With your 'new' olives and the red light Linn you seem one of the most contented guys here. Doesn't mean you can't ask about what's in the pipeline, Naim's analogue future directions though. I suppose

But there's lives to be lived, wives and girlfriends to be kissed, dogs to be walked, groceries to be got in for the weekend. And that grouting in the shower has never been good you must admit!

Best, Chris

Bob the Builder posted:

Do we think that Naim will ever put the resources into developing new analogue products.  

What about a special edition Phono Stage a Prefix 2 or a turntable power supply an Armageddon 2 with 33 and 45rpm?

 

Or will they follow througn with the approach they started in the Atom and Nova, digitising the analogue inputs?

At this point, I’d settle for a Super Lumina 4-to-5 pin DIN (to connect SL/SC to preamp).

It would suit me if Naim would just bring back the phono cable between the Aro and the Superline, grounded phono DIN to RCA or to BNC better yet.  I am happy with my Moerch arm but could use a new Naim phono cable.