Is the journey more important than the destination?

I suppose that this is a HOBBY for many of us, and that can mean that the process is fun and it's not as fun when the process ends.  I suppose that on one end of the spectrum it's "merely" a hobby about the hardware and tweaking, at the other end it's only about the music and those folks don't care about the tweaking or keeping up with the latest etc etc., and for many of us we fall in the middle. 

I fall in the middle.  I'm an (amateur) musician and have played instruments since I banged on my mom's pots so much that my parents got me drum lessons at age 6.  And I'm into the hardware and technology . . . but not so much the tweaking.  My cables are a mess, my single Fraim has "brain and brawn" on top of each other, but I don't seem to care too much about that.

I have had a fantastic journey over the last 30 years.

Whilst I really enjoyed the journey it was all about the music and not a continuous upgrade to the latest  best thing since sliced bread.

I think I may have come to the end of my journey with what I consider an excellent system that I am really delighted with. 

Although, on second thoughts I may have just parked for a while whilst I enjoy my music!

Richard

I think I possibly fall into that same category, but will be finding out as my new system evolves, the SBLs are purchased and on their way and am waiting to hear back on the NAP180

By the way that's a great system you have, I'm sure it sounds fantastic

You are in for a treat I recently swapped a black box system for an Olive 102/HC/180 and found that I was enjoying and playing much more music than with the black boxes and couldn't have been happier but a recent accident that that has left me off work and bored has led me to also buying a 72 that will be with me next week.  

My main source is vinyl and so I'm curios to see which pre the 72 or the 102 best suits this as these older pre amps were voiced and designed very much with vinyl  in mind.                                                                                                                                                                                                           

It will be interesting to hear what you think of the comparison. I started my Naim experience with a NAC72 years ago so it was natural for me to head back there with the NAP180 which partnered it at the time but the 102 did interest me as an option

The SBLs are a bit of an unknown but at their current prices it seems hard to believe they won't offer significant value for the outlay

I haven't decided on a source yet, but have been toying with a return to vinyl, as well as CD so am pretty confident i will get much enjoyment from that part of this exercise too

Sorry to read about your accident, I wish you a speedy recovery and hope enjoy the music in the meantime

Thanks CT

I also have access to some SBL's next week that I may buy for a second system so it will be interesting to compare notes.

If they are as good as some people say then yes they may well represent great value for money.  

I actually started my Naim journey quite late with a 32.5/90 about six  years ago that I eventually swapped for a UQ2 since then apart from a brief stint with a NAT01 and an Olive 250 I have had a steady flow of black boxes.

Linn Axis/UQ2 >>UQ2/150 >> LP12/UQ2/122X/150 >> LP12/UQ2/122X/FCXS/150 >> LP12/ND5XS/122X/FCXS/150 >>

LP12/NDXS/122XS/FCXS/200 >>LP12/ND5XS/202/HC/200 >> LP12/ND5XS/282/HC/200 >> LP12/NDDXS/282/DTC/250-2

>> LP12/Liv Zen/Chord 2QUTE/282/DTC/300 >> LP12/Liv Zen/Chord 2QUTE/102/HC/180

All in the space of just over 5 years thats without mentioning all the cable and speaker changes so like you I think I am also a bit of a serial box swapper but it wasn't until I went for a full Olive system that a found the sound I had been looking for and trying a 72 is more about tweaking thae sound rather than looking for something better.

CT I hear you buddy, I went a similar way in solo days, but family life needs a balance and stacks of boxes is not for me now, plus given my sphincter tightens everytime someone is too near the speakers.

My solution was the Nova, not imposing, actually sexy and discrete, no one needs to touch it, only the app via tablet  best is all it punches well above it's weight and there is less to tweak.

I think those of us who can justify spending the sort of money it takes to buy "audiophile" class Hi-Fi are likely to call it a hobby of sorts, well I certainly do and I enjoy it.  The thing is, when you get to the sort of level we're at, you're talking big money (compared with products like Sonos for example which are by no means cheap anyway), and every "upgrade", whether cabling, an arm on a TT or a pre/post amp is making a discernable improvement but each one seems to take a ton of cash! 

Been there and done that several times during these crazy 30 years... but not any more. Wouldn’t sell what I have now for any reason known to me. But of course you’re 100% correct: The journey is always the end in itself. 

Have fun or do something else. 

//Jonas

I find this a fascinating subject, and it’ll vary for each of us. For me, I’m a music nut who also likes tweaking, but have in the main found a point where I’m dead happy. My profile shows I upgraded a lot in the CB/olive range from 1985-1993, got a top-end turntable and CD player, and stopped buying any hifi except to replace irreparable items for 20 years (lightning struck speakers and a CD player that died after 20 years). During those 2 decades I bought a lot of music, listened to a lot of music at home, and attended probably 1,000 concerts. (Earlier this year I did buy my amp a Supercap upgrade to its Hicap as a 25th birthday present, maybe in another 25 years I’ll replace the 82 with a 52.  

2 years ago I decided to add ripped music, a HDX arrived, then replaced with an NDX. I’m pretty happy with this, but as the turntable is a clearly better source (to me) than the NDX, I’ll have a listen to the NDX2 and Nd555, knowing myself one will probably arrive. But then I’ll probably stick until the next major format change means I need a new source, when I’ll start at a reasonable level and upgrade until I’m happy. (I bought my first CD player in 1993 and my HDX in 2016, so not a new format early adopter.)

You have quite a journey in front of you. On YT is a bloke driving DBL actively from a Nac 72.

Bob, I look forward to your comparison.

The answers on the OP question is a rethorical one: is the question more important than the answer?

It is the audiophiles destiny not to have any defined destination..

Jonners posted:

I think those of us who can justify spending the sort of money it takes to buy "audiophile" class Hi-Fi are likely to call it a hobby of sorts, well I certainly do and I enjoy it.  The thing is, when you get to the sort of level we're at, you're talking big money (compared with products like Sonos for example which are by no means cheap anyway), and every "upgrade", whether cabling, an arm on a TT or a pre/post amp is making a discernable improvement but each one seems to take a ton of cash! 

My late wife used to occasionally comment on the “ridiculous” amount of money my hifi and black/silver discs had cost. I worked out once that roughly I’d spent £1/hour of listening pleasure, and that worked out as incredibly good value. She didn’t buy the argument. ????

Eoink posted:

Jonners posted:

I think those of us who can justify spending the sort of money it takes to buy "audiophile" class Hi-Fi are likely to call it a hobby of sorts, well I certainly do and I enjoy it.  The thing is, when you get to the sort of level we're at, you're talking big money (compared with products like Sonos for example which are by no means cheap anyway), and every "upgrade", whether cabling, an arm on a TT or a pre/post amp is making a discernable improvement but each one seems to take a ton of cash! 

My late wife used to occasionally comment on the “ridiculous” amount of money my hifi and black/silver discs had cost. I worked out once that roughly I’d spent £1/hour of listening pleasure, and that worked out as incredibly good value. She didn’t buy the argument. ????

Well I don't have a late wife Eoink, but I do have 3 ex-wives on the principle "the journey is more important than the destination" ;-)

While I found the journey very challenging by endlessly experimenting with different components, I have now reach the ideal for a final destination in the form of a healty Nait 2. So simple, just put the best upstream. Pure Naim DNA!

I am of the opinion that most of us who have pursued this "hobby" to an advanced level  - multiple boxes and rebuilds of systems over the years and conversing about the different configurations do consider the building an integral part of the enjoyment - not the music alone. It is almost inevitable as very few neophytes who do enjoy listening to music are going to start with a truly superior system and stop at the very first try. Darn, I could probably have afforded that ferrari by now if I'd only built one system . I have to admit, years ago part of my desire to keep adding on or changing was for the one-upsmanship. Naim and my dealer convinced me to focus on the music/sound and less about the "bling" of the current flavor of the month.

Thanks Benjy for your honesty. One-upmanship does play a part. You only need to read some of the posts on the Forum to realise that...any excuse to reiterate what a wonderful system they have...but I won’t name names!

ive spent 40 years on the Naim journey, starting with an LP 12, Nait and Heybrook HB1s and enjoyed the journey. However, I find the issue with “upgraditus” is that too much time is spent listening to “Hi-fi” and not sufficient time to the “music”, particularly in the pre/post period following an upgrade. Are we ever satisfied? Not a good place to be!

i think we all should take time out from using the forum, to enable us to simply sit back and enjoy the music, unencumbered by nagging thoughts that my systems “broken” because I’ve not invested in the latest upgrade...I’ve tried it and it works!

So why am I now on the forum...oh dear!!

HardBop posted:

 

i think we all should take time out from using the forum, to enable us to simply sit back and enjoy the music, unencumbered by nagging thoughts that my systems “broken” because I’ve not invested in the latest upgrade...I’ve tried it and it works!

For me the enjoyment is both, that isthe journey and destination. In this hobby you learn how to travel to what ever you define your destination. For me it’s knowing and experiencing a system that gives immense pleasure and that makes me want to find time to listen and enjoy my recordings. Once you or certainly when I achieved that, that upgrade itch goes... newer components come and go.. you realise though through the confidence nd e experience  you have acquired in your journey, that although you have a curiosity of them, that they probably won’t give you a better overall performance in terms of musical enjoyment.. and so that urge goes.

i have a theory that those who are driven by upgraditis either are not truly enjoying their system through some deficiency or lack of performance/setup, or in fact their destination is not really about enjoying their recordings above all else, but about owning the latest product.. nothing wrong with that in my opinion... as I say this hobby has severeal destinations, and you choose which journey and destination is right for you.

The equipment part of the music hobby, isn’t as such core of my interest. Obviously I made steps in my upgrade path like everybody, and i feel the excitement of comparing and finding out better options to get closer to the music, but it’s always for me about the music and not the equipment.

My upgrades have tended to focus on getting more from the music, whether in detail or presentation

Its always great to play a really well known and loved piece of music and either hear new detail or have it presented in a slightly different or more realistic way

The newest piece of equipment was never really a "must have" for me as I can't stomach the depreciation involved at the next box swap so most of my purchases are ex-dem or pre-loved and I find the joy with Naim is that there are plenty of people following the same path so residual values are pretty good

This was one of the considerations for me when looking at some of the other brands I mentioned earlier, the thought of losing over 50% of the value of a purchase in the first few months makes me shudder

Buying gear and listening to music are two parallel hobbies of equal interest but unequal importance for me. The music is essential while the gear could very well be a $50 table radio if I someday end up broke.

For me the destination. I tend to do a massive revamp of my system once a decade and make very few changes until the next round where I tend to build a whole new system.

I prefer to focus on the music rather than thinking about the next box.

That said, any change in domestic configuration causes me to question whether what I currently have is suitable. 

Granted, most people into hifi seem to want to make a box change every year or two and slowly evolve the same system. That seems to always result in a system that is out of balance needed more upgrades to allow the last thing to be upgraded to "not be held back" by the current system. That same amount of effort can be spent on music.

Buying a whole system in one go is expensive. But in the long run I think it is cheaper and as everything is chosen to work together, gives a more satisfying outcome.

That makes sense , but takes a lot of “will power”

In life, the journey is more important than the destination, and it is vital to enjoy the journey regardless of the destination.

with holidays I tend to think of it the other way round - but then I’ve never had time for a long enough holiday to make the travelling there part of the holiday (different things may happen after I retire), and I’m not the slightest bit interested in cruises.

With HiFi what matters to me is neither the joirney nor the destination, but the now. What has been important is that at every point in my life since I started with hifi I have been able to, and hope/intend always to be able to, enjoy playing music sounding good. I actually dislike the notion of an ‘upgrade path’, although at the same time having always recognised that better is possible I suppose I’ve always had half an eye cocked at things I would like to have if I could afford them, but have tended to leave that dormant much of the time. As each moment of the journey is what is important to me, one interpretation is that it is the journey that is more important - but that is not how I see it bcause what makes it important is not because it is a journey, but because I enjoy being where I am at each step.

benjy posted:

 I have to admit, years ago part of my desire to keep adding on or changing was for the one-upsmanship. Naim and my dealer convinced me to focus on the music/sound and less about the "bling" of the current flavor of the month.

One-upmanship is an interesting subject. Anyone see the short British TV series of that name featuring Richard Briars, I think shortly after the end of The Good Life TV sitcom series back in the 1970s? 

Personally I try to avoid one-upmanship guiding any of my choices - rather the reverse at times (e.g. removing the ‘turbo’ badge from a car as soon as I had purchased it, because there was no need for anyone other than me to know it was a performance model). 

I can see how one-upmanship can steer someone’s choice of, say, car, or watch but hifi is a bit different, being inherently rather less visible, and with far fewer people likely to recognise different gear - though maybe back in the eatly 1970s, gleaming silver amps etc bristling with ever more controls and meters were perhaps marketed with that partly in mind, the more it appeared to do the more people might be impressed (as opposed to the better it sounded the more people would be impressed) - perhaps that is what you are alluding to here?