Harbeth owners: How long did you own them?

Daniel,

I had the SHL5 (not the + version) for about 5 years. OK speaker I guess, but I realised there were better out there for my taste in music (rock , pop mostly) and my changing naim system revealed they were not for me.

Changed to S400 then to ProAc D48R. 

What they do well, they do very well - possibly one of the best  - at vocals, acoustic only music, small scale jazz, folk, small scale classical etc.

For me the SHL5 clearly lacked the speed, drive & scale of rock, dance music etc. I was still (and still are) learning about system/room matching.

Clearly speakers are the hardest to get right as each person has their own preferances / needs of a speaker and this has to then match a room and electronics.

What is your music taste, room size (solid wall or plaster board , solid or suspended wooden floor etc. ? )  As that will be a big factor if Harbeth are for you and/or will work with you and your room.

Good Luck,

Peter

I have had the P3ESR for 7 years now and there is no real plan (or need) for a change. They are good fit for my small room and suit well for my low level volume and near field listening habits. It might be true what Peter said about rock and dance music. However mine are the smallest of the product line so I would not expect that much concerning that type of genres anyhow. These small speakers do shine at vocals and acoustic and other small scale music though. 

HL5 for 5 years now, no plan to make a change. Not only hHarbeth come for sale after a few weeks, also naim and other brands. I don‘t know way people do that, i think it is part of the (expensive) game.

I have the Super HL5 40th anniversary edition for about one year now. Previously, the P3ESR (in another room) for about 3 years.

I've had my Super HL5 plus since january. During this period there have been ups and downs. They are imo not a so called dynamic speaker, and suits some musical genres better than others. I wondered if I had done right and purchased a pair of s/h Sonus Faber Olympica II, just to compare. Good as they are, my 5's ran over the SF and I sold them.

All other speakers I have owned is like "variations within the same theme". For me it's not about listening to speed and dynamics alone, if music and naturalness is not there, why bother?

In the start I owned Harbeth C7es3 and Kudos Super 20a at the same time. Very different designs and Kudos does a lot of good things, but I was dragged towards the Harbeths every time.

I had to get used to the presentation from the Harbeths and now I have no plan to part with them, they are wonderful, natural and emotional speakers. I have realised that speakers are compromises. 

S

Harbeth SHL5 for 7 years, sold and upgraded to the SHL5 Plus which are about 2 years old now. No plans to change the speakers. The main issue I had with the SHL5 non-plus was a bloated bass which contributed to an overall smearing in the bass and midbass. The SHL5 Plus addressed all these issues.

Hi Daniel

I've had 30.1 on home demo now for over a week now.

I've owned ATC SCM40 (current mk2 curved version) for around a couple of years now and my feeling is that SCM40 is about as good a speaker as you can get regardless of cost and about the only speaker you ever need. It does everything well. However, in the period of ownership of SCM40 one thing has always bugged me - bass in my room. In my modest room (typical UK Edwardian living room 4m x 4.3m with bay window, chimney breast, and suspended timber floor) the bass balance is way too strong (+12db at 45hz) due to room acoustics.

Over the last two years I've tried various speakers in an attempt to find something I enjoy as much as SCM40 but without the bass issue. The obvious step down was ATC SCM19. I liked these but ultimately found them lacking bass and too forward/bright for my taste. I also tried PMC Twenty5.22 and although offered perfect bass for my taste and room compared to SCM19 found them at times difficult to listen to, lacked depth of tone and very unforgiving. I tried Proac Response D2 and although pleasant sounding I was surprised to find they offered a tad too much bass for my room, having what I thought was quite a shouty, noticeable, front port. The sound seemed to lack the coherence of the other speakers I had tried, just not for me. Perhaps I should have experimented more with positioning.

Before I got SCM40 a couple of years ago I tried Super HL5+ and didn't like them at all - they did arrive badly damaged so not sure if that had anything to do with it. Terrible bloated bass and muffled sound. They went straight back to the shop.

Recently I had the opportunity to try 30.1 and I'm very glad I took the opportunity. They are very different to the likes of ATC and PMC but not wholly different. They both have a studio monitor pedigree and strive for accuracy/transparency with low distortion.

Immediately on settling up and listening to 30.1 I thought they had a beautiful and natural sound, just beguiling. They also, in my room, have a perfect balance from top to bottom, the port seems benign compared to the proacs, no noticeable chuffing. They are perfect for my room. The special thing about the 30.1 is the way they just fill my room with a beautiful sound that other standmount speakers such as SCM19 and 25.22 failed to do, They do not overload the room like SCM40 do. I suspect the large 180cm Harbeth driver has a lot to do with this. Just wonderful. The mid range is at least on a par with SCM40, something I've never heard before with any other speaker.  Listen to vocals, piano, and guitar on Susanne Sundfør,  The Sound of War, or No One Believes In Love Anymore. Just wonderful to listen to on the Harbeths. The realism and depth of tone is extraordinary. The soundstage is wide and deep, deeper than SCM40. The top end is smooth and detailed like SCM40. No listening fatigue whatsoever, you can get close to these speakers. The bass is balanced and controlled, enough to satisfy, unlike I found with SCM19. Listening to scm40 is like sitting at the control desk of a recording studio. Listening to 30.1 is like listening sitting at a wooden table in a smoke filled bar. Both have their merits. 30.1 is not the perfect speaker. The bass compared to SCM40 is not as tight/fast or accurate, the textures and timbres of bass are not as real or heart thumping. I'd give scm40 10/10 for bass, top of the class, I'd give pmc 25.22 9/10 excellent for bass, and I'd give Harbeth 7-8/10 good for bass. Probably on a par other high quality ported speakers.

I've heard and read comments that Harbeth cannot do rock music and they are for pipe and slippers people. I don't swallow this at all. The Harbeths do rock and dance music great and have got my foot tapping every time. They sound good no matter what you feed them. scm40 does rock and dance better due to the better bottom end, no doubt about that. My music taste is very ecleptic ranging from classical to punk rock. 

scm40 is still the best speaker I've ever heard and i would keep them if i had a room large enough but I'm seriously thinking about moving on to 30.1 now. I recommend you try 30.1 if you think they maybe are for you.

You may be interest to know that I smoked a pipe aged 25 and once accidentally went clubbing wearing slippers, forgetting to put my shoes on as I left the house 

I own Harbeth speakers for several years  now,  after trying numerous speakers before….And  yes I stay with my 30.1 forever. A match made in heaven. (although I experience some hazy bass) ,as for the Harbeths  "they do not rock". Believe me they do.....but its the same nonsense they tell you  about Quad, only suitable for classic music..Linn is only good to get you into sleep...Naim only when playing  loud. etc....

Halloween Man posted:

Hi Daniel

I've had 30.1 on home demo now for over a week now.

I've owned ATC SCM40 (current mk2 curved version) for around a couple of years now and my feeling is that SCM40 is about as good a speaker as you can get regardless of cost and about the only speaker you ever need. It does everything well. However, in the period of ownership of SCM40 one thing has always bugged me - bass in my room. In my modest room (typical UK Edwardian living room 4m x 4.3m with bay window, chimney breast, and suspended timber floor) the bass balance is way too strong (+12db at 45hz) due to room acoustics.

Over the last two years I've tried various speakers in an attempt to find something I enjoy as much as SCM40 but without the bass issue. The obvious step down was ATC SCM19. I liked these but ultimately found them lacking bass and too forward/bright for my taste. I also tried PMC Twenty5.22 and although offered perfect bass for my taste and room compared to SCM19 found them at times difficult to listen to, lacked depth of tone and very unforgiving. I tried Proac Response D2 and although pleasant sounding I was surprised to find they offered a tad too much bass for my room, having what I thought was quite a shouty, noticeable, front port. The sound seemed to lack the coherence of the other speakers I had tried, just not for me. Perhaps I should have experimented more with positioning.

Before I got SCM40 a couple of years ago I tried Super HL5+ and didn't like them at all - they did arrive badly damaged so not sure if that had anything to do with it. Terrible bloated bass and muffled sound. They went straight back to the shop.

Recently I had the opportunity to try 30.1 and I'm very glad I took the opportunity. They are very different to the likes of ATC and PMC but not wholly different. They both have a studio monitor pedigree and strive for accuracy/transparency with low distortion.

Immediately on settling up and listening to 30.1 I thought they had a beautiful and natural sound, just beguiling. They also, in my room, have a perfect balance from top to bottom, the port seems benign compared to the proacs, no noticeable chuffing. They are perfect for my room. The special thing about the 30.1 is the way they just fill my room with a beautiful sound that other standmount speakers such as SCM19 and 25.22 failed to do, They do not overload the room like SCM40 do. I suspect the large 180cm Harbeth driver has a lot to do with this. Just wonderful. The mid range is at least on a par with SCM40, something I've never heard before with any other speaker.  Listen to vocals, piano, and guitar on Susanne Sundfør,  The Sound of War, or No One Believes In Love Anymore. Just wonderful to listen to on the Harbeths. The realism and depth of tone is extraordinary. The soundstage is wide and deep, deeper than SCM40. The top end is smooth and detailed like SCM40. No listening fatigue whatsoever, you can get close to these speakers. The bass is balanced and controlled, enough to satisfy, unlike I found with SCM19. Listening to scm40 is like sitting at the control desk of a recording studio. Listening to 30.1 is like listening sitting at a wooden table in a smoke filled bar. Both have their merits. 30.1 is not the perfect speaker. The bass compared to SCM40 is not as tight/fast or accurate, the textures and timbres of bass are not as real or heart thumping. I'd give scm40 10/10 for bass, top of the class, I'd give pmc 25.22 9/10 excellent for bass, and I'd give Harbeth 7-8/10 good for bass. Probably on a par other high quality ported speakers.

I've heard and read comments that Harbeth cannot do rock music and they are for pipe and slippers people. I don't swallow this at all. The Harbeths do rock and dance music great and have got my foot tapping every time. They sound good no matter what you feed them. scm40 does rock and dance better due to the better bottom end, no doubt about that. My music taste is very ecleptic ranging from classical to punk rock. 

scm40 is still the best speaker I've ever heard and i would keep them if i had a room large enough but I'm seriously thinking about moving on to 30.1 now. I recommend you try 30.1 if you think they maybe are for you.

You may be interest to know that I smoked a pipe aged 25 and once accidentally went clubbing wearing slippers, forgetting to put my shoes on as I left the house 

fred47 posted:

I own Harbeth speakers for several years  now,  after trying numerous speakers before….And  yes I stay with my 30.1 forever. A match made in heaven. (although I experience some hazy bass) ,as for the Harbeths  "they do not rock". Believe me they do.....but its the same nonsense they tell you  about Quad, only suitable for classic music..Linn is only good to get you into sleep...Naim only when playing  loud. etc....

would you recommend the 30.1also for large scale choral and orchestral classic music

I think it depends on your room size, in a small to medium room, in my experience, yes, without a doubt. I’m not sure about a larger room.

Great question Daniel.  I’m also contemplating Harbeth.  I’ve been following a similar path to Halloween Man looking to replace my 1993 SBLs.  I came very close to buying the ATC40 but their ability to sound good at low levels and the dealer’s advice that they really needed a NAP300 to get the best from them put me off.  

Since then I’ve been demoing speakers up to £4,5000 (the usual suspects).  The only speakers that have significantly bettered (in some respects) the SBLs were the HL5+ and 30.2.  Very different to the SBLs but so much better with pianos and the overall palpability of the music, especially the human voice.  I was really looking for a floor stander but am very tempted by the 30.2 which appears to be more suited to my room.  Only problem is finding a nearby dealer (in London) you’ll facilitate a home demo.

If I do end up with Harbeth I plan to hang onto the SBLs for a while, just in case I miss them.

I would not worry too much about seeing them second hand.  Any speaker can sound great at the dealers but have problems when they arrive home.  Many s/h sellers also seem to be upgrading within the Harbeth range.  The real test is that they seem to command healthy s/h prices.

I also find Harbeth’s approach refreshing.  Alan Shaw’s explanations of his designs are very convincing and I love their simplicity, especially seeking to ensure the midland is covered by one driver rather than having the crossover point in the middle of the most musically important frequencies.  This may explain why they get close to the ATCs lovely midband performance.  I take his advice that any reasonable amp will do with a pinch of salt but I am very attracted to the idea that we should just enjoy the music and not worry too much about seeking ever more powerful amps.

Harbeth I think export most of their production and given how difficult it is in many parts of the world to get a home demo I wonder if people end up buying mail order based on the rave reviews only to find they don’t work well in their system or room?

I think I have read somewhere in this forum that someone here owns the Harbeth 40.2?

Halloween Man posted:

Over the last two years I've tried various speakers in an attempt to find something I enjoy as much as SCM40 but without the bass issue. The obvious step down was ATC SCM19. I liked these but ultimately found them lacking bass and too forward/bright for my taste. I also tried PMC Twenty5.22 and although offered perfect bass for my taste and room compared to SCM19 found them at times difficult to listen to, lacked depth of tone and very unforgiving.

 

Can relate to this, but went down an alternative path, since I loved the midrange punch that the SN2 + ATC SCM19s was providing – so I added the JL Audio e110 sub.  There are no more missing octaves, and the scale of the music has just massively expanded.  My big surprise was how the sub made the ATCs even better in the midrange!  But to another comment in the thread:  at the end it's all about the combination of room, amplification, and particular preference (and I suppose, how much one can stick with that preference vs. feeling an itch to try something new).

The Nait 1 + ProAc Tablette 10 Signature setup I just put together in my home office (near field listening, no lesss!) is quite different to the other system... less punch, less scale, but the smoothness and humanity in the vocals is lovely (I would probably not be able to concentrate on work with ATCs... I get pulled into the music too quickly).

I've owned 30.1 (now on 282 hi-cap/250dr) for about two years. I have trouble getting around,so extensive listening beforehand would have been difficult. The person I bought mine from moved up to the 40's so I got a very good deal and he delivered and set- up for me. Basically bought "blind" but have been very happy with them. They are not perfect but... they do many things very well and nothing poorly. Ideal for the many vocals, soft rock, jazz that I mainly listen to. Not great on "complex" orchestrations, but for me not a problem. Not for head-banging rock. Also, they do very well at low volumes, which at times I must use. I'd be surprised if you would be disappointed with them.

I went as far as 252/sc/300 with my monitor 30's and it remains my second system. Love their natural sound just felt they weren't going deep enough so turned to Kudos 88's initially.  The 40.1's were too big for my room and carried too much bass though in the right environment they would be wonderful i feel.  If i won the lottery somewhere, some place,  i would have a room with a  system built around the 40.2's just for pure indulgence. i also still have some Rogers LS3/5a's my flate mate blew up and harbeth restored.  They will be handed down in years to come. Gave me plenty of enjoyment in a small space back in the day.

kishekar posted:

Halloween Man posted:

Over the last two years I've tried various speakers in an attempt to find something I enjoy as much as SCM40 but without the bass issue. The obvious step down was ATC SCM19. I liked these but ultimately found them lacking bass and too forward/bright for my taste. I also tried PMC Twenty5.22 and although offered perfect bass for my taste and room compared to SCM19 found them at times difficult to listen to, lacked depth of tone and very unforgiving.

 

Can relate to this, but went down an alternative path, since I loved the midrange punch that the SN2 + ATC SCM19s was providing – so I added the JL Audio e110 sub.  There are no more missing octaves, and the scale of the music has just massively expanded.  My big surprise was how the sub made the ATCs even better in the midrange!  But to another comment in the thread:  at the end it's all about the combination of room, amplification, and particular preference (and I suppose, how much one can stick with that preference vs. feeling an itch to try something new).

The Nait 1 + ProAc Tablette 10 Signature setup I just put together in my home office (near field listening, no lesss!) is quite different to the other system... less punch, less scale, but the smoothness and humanity in the vocals is lovely (I would probably not be able to concentrate on work with ATCs... I get pulled into the music too quickly).

Thats also a path I am thinking off, adding a Subwoofer to my 30.1 speakers . Since I have the NOVA I feel the bass is somewhat muddy and incoherent.And yes some instruments I could clearly here with the XS combi, now seem to disappear in the far distance. Sometimes not to hear at all.Maybe a Subwoofer (focal?) could bring some benefits. Thoughts and sugestions are very welcome.

I’m also toying with Harbeth 30.1 or 2.  Many on the forum praise the speaker’s vaunted midrange, but have misgivings about base and handling of orchestral or “dynamic” music, some suggest subwoofer. Does anyone feel the issue amplifier? Several years ago I corresponded with non-English speaking audio journalist who had auditioned all larger Harbeth speakers and said they required more  power to drive them than usually provided. I’m using NAP300-DR and I wonder if in order to bloom they required NAP500?

in my experience the 300 (non dr) was plenty of amp for the 30's.  i would have loved to have had the 500 i now have on those 40's i demoed.  that could have made a world of difference as the grip is phenomenal. That said my room will always be the short coming for bass units of that size. 

Nagual posted:

in my experience the 300 (non dr) was plenty of amp for the 30's.  i would have loved to have had the 500 i now have on those 40's i demoed.  that could have made a world of difference as the grip is phenomenal. That said my room will always be the short coming for bass units of that size. 

Could you share somethings  about your placement?

 I know Harbeth downplay power requirements, but this is likely marketing ploy to play down cost of ownership and play up ease of matching. Have you tried or heard 500 with 30’s or 40’s? 

Ity is my believe that You don"t need more power. I went from 60 wat rms to 80 watt rms. and found the bass more incohorent (less grip) and muddy then with my former Nait XS. Although this could be due to an other streaming platform? ( Nova versus Nd5xs) 

Maybe the xs is the better amp?

No...The Nova is so much better then my former XS. 

After nearly a couple of weeks with the Harbeth 30.1, the achilles heel is the bass, compared to ATC it just sounds slow and muffled. It's still a very nice speaker to listen to, very forgiving and musical. In my room they need at least 30-40cm space behind and at least double this to the side.

As far as power to 30.1 goes, the clue is with Harbeth's own 30.1 Powered - 60w. Anything less than this is likely not enough.

I had Harbeth P3s (two consecutive iterations; the first pair stayed with my ex) for 10-15 years.

Then I upgraded to Martin Logans. I had no complaints whatever about the P3s whilst I had them. (However, when I auditioned my current speakers, I a/b’d them against P3s and 30.1s. In comparison with my ESLs, the P3s sounded ‘boxy’ and the 30.1s were unlistenably slow...)