Harbeth owners: How long did you own them?

For me I owned a pair of  C7 ES-3 for about 3 months and then sold... it was indeed the bass that let them down in my setup... they were too slow and indistict compared to what I was used to with my earlier ATCs... I found I couldn’t easily follow bass lines as well... I tried all sorts to tighten the bass to no avail. It was a shame as the tweeter and mid was rather sweet and beguiling.. if not necessarily that detailed, and at the time the high end was not the high point of my then previous ATCs... that changed later with the use of their own Hf drivers.

I could spend a lifetime just looking at these SHL5+ 40 th Anniversary speakers !

I have been with my SHL5 since 2010. Slightly battered now after my cat toppled one of them at one stage.  Fed them with 252/SCDR/250DR.   At some stage hope to upgrade to 300DR

SHL5s need space. I’ve been trading places a few times for the past few years.  they perform better with my living room sized up on each move. 

I had 30.1s for a few years. I had to change when I moved house as the new room wasn’t suitable for stand mounts that needed a lot of air around them. I went to SBLs and then SL2s. Despite what Alan Shaw says, Harbeths do need power and work better with more power, in my experience. They do have bass but it’s not as well articulated or as fast as a speaker like the SBL. But I found the midrange more natural in the Harbeths than the SBLs. In this respect the SL2s are a significant improvement over the SBLs. So I think you would need at least a 250 and a room in which there is a good space around the speakers - sides as well as behind. After that it’s very much a matter of taste and the subjective comments here about such matters as ‘speed’ and ‘slam’ can only be tested against your own experience.

Clive

TOBYJUG posted:

Gordon Lau posted:

I have been with my SHL5 since 2010. Slightly battered now after my cat toppled one of them at one stage.  Fed them with 252/SCDR/250DR.   At some stage hope to upgrade to 300DR

SHL5s need space. I’ve been trading places a few times for the past few years.  they perform better with my living room sized up on each move. 

I could spend a lifetime just looking at these SHL5+ 40 th Anniversary speakers !

SHL5+ are often described as onerous to place, but once done offering best of 30.1 with richer  base and greater range of sound.  I've shied away from the speakers feeling placement might be too formidable and I'm just music lover, was there anything in how you placed your SHL5's that stands out as more important? This could include placement-space, stands, cables, gear, etc.          

Harbeth Super HL5plus in Eucalyptus on Tonträger stands. About 1,5m from front wall, 2.2m between them and approx. 0.8 to closest sidewall. Measured from centre of front baffle.Listening position also about 2.2m.

I my view they come to their best when well out on the floor, not very welcome to UK homes I recon? I have a dedicated room and can do as I like. I think my speaker search is over for a while  I was tempted by a demo. pair 40.2 in walnut, with a small damage, but decided to let it go, it may cause another hi-fi nevrosia!!

S

Stover, thank you for your informative report on placement and beautiful picture. I have similar possibility that after seeing your room I will consider, if it should result in divorce proceeding I will call you to testify on role of speaker placement and need for privacy.    

Did you come to your placement decision based on your own trial and error, or on guidance or installation from your dealer?

Regrading the Tontrager stands, I've not seen them, but heard they look and sound quite good. Were there any setup issues and assembly involved.      

I purchased a s/h pair of Harbeth C7es3 and found them to be to my musical taste. I then purchased 5`s new, based on my findings with C7 and also got a good offer on the Tonträgers. Some say these stands are a bit to high , due to tweeter (not the Super tweeter) should be at ear hight. I have no problems with that. I have no experience with other stand designs.

The placement in my room is based on hard work, trying and failing, breaking barriers on how to place speakers etc. Googling for acoustic ideas and trying that as well.

Best thing to do imo is to listen and try for yourself, what's the best solution for you. It will give you the best result and you learn a lot.

S

Stover posted:

I purchased a s/h pair of Harbeth C7es3 and found them to be to my musical taste. I then purchased 5`s new, based on my findings with C7 and also got a good offer on the Tonträgers. Some say these stands are a bit to high , due to tweeter (not the Super tweeter) should be at ear hight. I have no problems with that. I have no experience with other stand designs.

The placement in my room is based on hard work, trying and failing, breaking barriers on how to place speakers etc. Googling for acoustic ideas and trying that as well.

Best thing to do imo is to listen and try for yourself, what's the best solution for you. It will give you the best result and you learn a lot.

S

Stover,

Thank you for your response, especially and perhaps inevitable need to refine placement yourself!   

michael17 posted:

 

I take his advice that any reasonable amp will do with a pinch of salt but I am very attracted to the idea that we should just enjoy the music and not worry too much about seeking ever more powerful amps.

I have tried many amps with the Harbeth in the past and they all sound different with the speakers. Some small differences, some very apparent large difference. I don't particularly like the Rega-Harbeth combination but some folks do like the pairing. To be fair I am comparing between the Rega Elicit integrated and much costlier Naim pre/power so it might be an unfair comparison. Even with Naim, I have heard a profound difference when going up the range, from the Nait XS to 202/200 and 282/250DR, all with the Harbeth speaker.

In my latest switch earlier this week, i switched from 202/200 to 282/250 again. The 202/200 below with SHL5 Plus.

[IMG]https://s15.postimg.cc/gtnbvb70r/20180911_112342.jpg[/IMG]

Switched to 282/250DR

[IMG]https://s15.postimg.cc/43j3hn6m3/20180914_181348.jpg[/IMG]

Can't seem to post photos using my Android phone as the tool box with a link to insert an image is missing.

cnewyork posted:

Stover,

Thank you for your response, especially and perhaps inevitable need to refine placement yourself!   

The SHL5 Plus needs to have considerable distance from the front and side walls to have a balanced bass response. Otherwise it will be slow and indistinct bass lines. In my current system, distance from front wall to back of speaker is 0.8m, to front of speaker 1.1m. In other words, the speaker is 1.1m out into the room, slightly more if considering the toe-in.

I have been told that LFD is a good match for Harbeth?

Thanks for posting the photos Alba.

Frank, I  have tried the LFD Zero LEIII with the Harbeth SHL5 non-Plus about 8 or 9 years ago. The LFD has an illuminating sound with a sweeter and more tube-like presentation than Naim and most solid state amps I have tried with the Harbeth. Very good clarity and speed as well with tight and clear bass lines. During that time the LFD was directly compared to my much costlier Plinius and Audio Research separates driving the Harbeth SHL5. The LFD made the separates system sound broken.

The Nait XS together with the Rega Elicit were brought in later and to be frank both didn't have the special engaging sound of the LFD when matched with the Harbeth. However, i didn't pick the LFD as the deal breaker for me was the below par build quality (cheap looking case) and the lack of remote. I later tried the Naim 202/200 and the Harbeth sounded quite admirable with these which i think is a decent step up from the Nait XS. The 282/250Dr with Chord Signature cables throughout sounded a lot better.

I am not sure how the 282/250DR will compare to the LFD on the Harbeth but I am not bothered now as i have stopped looking. The 282/250 is quality, producing an engaging and robust sound with the SHL5 Plus speakers. There is now the LFD Zero MkIV and V, and also the top of the range NCSE. You may try the LFD if you have the Harbeth to see if you like it, provided you can accept the aesthetics and the lack of a remote control.

Interesting info, thanks Ryder.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

For me I owned a pair of  C7 ES-3 for about 3 months and then sold... it was indeed the bass that let them down in my setup... they were too slow and indistict compared to what I was used to with my earlier ATCs... I found I couldn’t easily follow bass lines as well... I tried all sorts to tighten the bass to no avail

I know exactly what you mean, I experienced this with the 30.1 but after moving the speakers well away from front and side walls (70cm from front centre of woofer to rear wall, 1m from front centre of woofer to side wall) it's now unnoticeable in my room. Perhaps the 30.1 is a bit tighter than the C7.

ATC is without a doubt better at bass but as you say, there is something about the Harbeth sound that is just beguiling, you can just sit back, enjoy, and listen to them all day. Everything sounds good, regardless of genre. They are also a much better match for bass in my room (4m x 4.3m) compared to SCM40.

I've also recently had an opportunity to compare the 30.1 to Spendor 2/3 and Spendor 3/1. It was close between 30.1 and 2/3 but in the end the Harbeths were a better match for my room, offering less bass.

The main thing for me is the total absense of any form of listening fatique. 

I went out a few days ago and listened to some speakers. I started the day listening to ATC SCM 19s, and then Harbeth 30.1s. I listened to both at the same dealer, on a setup similar to mine; Naim Supernait 2 with Naim NDX as a source. All files from Tidal. I have in my home a Naim Supernait 2, ND5 XS and Sonus Faber Venere 2.0 speakers.

From reviews, I was expecting to love the ATC SCM19, and love some things about the Harbeth 30.1. I expected both to be much better than my Sonus Fabers. 

First up, the ATC SCM19. Completely underwhelmed! I tried out a good 15 different pieces of music. Only once did the ATCs sound anywhere near glorious. They were cold and lifeless to my ears. They didn't do anything really wrong, but nothing really right either. I was left mouth open wondering how these speakers have accumulated so many glowing reviews. I would not exchange my $2700 Sonus Fabers for the $4500 ATCs. It would be a sideways move at best. I would even like them less. They really did not do it for me. I mean no offense to ATC users, we all like different things. They are surely great for other people. Speakers are like underwear; they are not a "one size fits all". Everyone likes different things. 

Up next, the Harbeth 30.1. Same system, same room and accessories, etc. Now that's what I am talking about!!! They are a little bit slower in the bass, but not exceedingly so. The highs are nice; detailed and never bright or harsh. But the midrange... So beautiful. The strongest attribute of the Harbeth is the timbre. An acoustic guitar sounds like an acoustic guitar. A piano sounds like a piano, etc. Every type of music played through the Harbeths is rendered through a window of lush beauty. 

Is the Harbeth perfect? No. The bass is a bit loose and flabby (although, it has a nice warmth to it). The soundstage is mediocre at best. The price is also on the higher side. But, I completely understand why people fall in love with the Harbeth sound. It's a really nice speaker to listen to. 

Now onto the 3rd speaker I listened to on the same day. Different dealer, but the same Naim source and amplification. I had listened to the Ryan R610 before, and I had really enjoyed it. So, I went to listen to it again, right after hearing the ATC and the Harbeth. 

The Ryan is too good for its price! ($2600). It doesn't have as nice a finish as the Harbeth Rosewood, but it excels where it counts sound wise. The timbres on the Ryan are 85-90% as good as on the Harbeths. Not as good, but not far. But, everything else about the Ryans is better. The top end is more detailed, while still being smooth. The bass on the Ryan is much deeper and just as tight as the bass on the ATC. The Ryan was the most balanced, and the best of the bunch to my ears. It makes the Harbeth 30.1 at over $5k seem "expensive". 

Unfortunately, Ryan only has 1 or 2 dealers in Canada, and none in England. Most Ryan dealers are in the USA, so most of you will not get a chance to hear them. Ryan is coming out soon with a better bookshelf model (S610) at $4K US soon. I will wait for this model to be released. If this model was not coming, I would have happily bought the R610 at $2600, over the ATC and Harbeth. Of course, YMMV and your tastes might lead to a different choice.

This only reinforces to me, that you should never buy a speaker based on reviews only. You must absolutely hear them with your amp and a similar source. 

I discovered in my room the Harbeth's need space around them for the bass to tighten up. I wouldn't describe the bass as loose and flabby once positioned optimally but it does have warmth and certainly not as fast or accurate as ATC. The top end and mids certainly at least on a par with ATC SCM40. I read 30.1 uses the highly regarded SEAS Excel tweeter.

I'm surprised about the soundstage comment as I think that's one of the Harbeth's strengths. In my room it's wide and deep with great separation, no problems.

What makes the Harbeth's special, like you say, timbres of voices and acoustic instruments, and the warm and smooth sound. You can get really close to these speakers with no listening fatigue and the sound just fills the room.

We all hear things differently and have different preferences and of course the room and setup can render huge differences with speakers. I've learned you really need to demo speakers at home in your listening environment.

Good morning, previously I owned for 6 months the floorstanding loudspeaker ProAc D48 . After, I have traded in them for the Harbeth Super HL5 Plus 40th Anniversary complete of Tonträger stands. My "listening area" is not so huge, about 3 m width and 4 m depth. I drive them with the integrated amplifier Naim SuperNait 2 powered by the Naim HiCap DR. This "wedding" for me is great. The medium and low range are very naturally and the stage is quite wide. 

Thanks, my taste is spoken word, folk, acoustic, classical , not roaring rock.  I have a CDX2, 200.202 Hi Cap and PMC FB1 as well as a tube Magnum Dynalab.  Your review was what I wanted to read  , I just sat down for few hours yesterday listening to Radio3, sometimes superb and sometimes wading through treacle , smallish room (7 metres x 4 metres, with carpets and speakers by conservatory door) Will give Harbeth 30.1 monitors a trial.