NAS + Streamer VS NAS + Music Server + DAC

Generally, the consensus on this forum is that NAS + streamer is a preferred choice. 
I once compared by UnitiServe + nDAC vs my NDX and I chose the latter.

I’ve never heard Linn Klimax DS so cannot judge how it compares to other sources.

If I may offer an alternative way of upgrading your ‘sound’ - try a HiCap DR on the 282.

RustyZip posted:

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What im basically asking is - pound for pound, would i get "more for my money" going the Music Server + DAC route, or staying with the NAS + Streamer  ??

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I doubt that your question can be meaningfull answered in this generality and I am also not sure that, as suggested by Adam, there is a consensus about NAS + Streamer being the preferred choice.

In recent years Naim has manufactured mainly streamers. Thus, it is obvious that many posts in the Naim "Streaming Audio" forum tend to be about streamers.

On the other hand, Naim streamers typically also have S/PDIF inputs. In the past two to three years, many users that wanted to enjoy Tidal, Qobuz, Roon, etc. on their NDS, NDX, ND5 XS have front-ended their devices with small servers or network players (like for instance Sonore's micro- and ultraRendu, Allo's USBridge and DigiOne, SoTM's sMS-200 and sMS-200ultra, etc.) thus effectively using these devices as pure DACs.

With the new ND555, NDX 2 and ND5 XS 2, Naim has introduced "streamers" that can also act as UPnP servers and, of course, as S/PDIF DACs. One only needs to connect a USB drive to one of these devices and one has a full fledged UPnP server. If one is happy with Naim's UPnP server, there is no need for a NAS or for any additional music server (apart from a Roon server that cannot run on the new Naim streamers).

Perhaps it is useful to keep in mind that Naim streamers are just DACs with S/PDIF and Ethernet inputs. Of course it might not make very much sense to buy a Naim streamer if you know for certain that you will not use its Ethernet input.

But the question of whether it makes more sense to have Server, Renderer and DAC in different boxes or to have Server + Renderer (or Renderer + DAC) in the same box very much depends on the specific devices that you plan to use, on your wish to use internet streaming services, on your LAN, on your budget, etc. It cannot be answered without considering these aspects.

I personally have so far adopted a two-box solution: Server + Renderer in one box and DAC in another box. For me, the main advantages of this architecture are that 1) I can easily try new services and protocols (Qobuz, Roon, Tidal, etc.) by just upgrading or changing the OS of the Server + Renderer box and 2) I do not need to have my Server + Renderer box wired up to my LAN.

Also I have noticed that users of Naim streamers tend to upgrade their devices more often than I wish to do and not necessarily because they are not anymore happy with the DACs inside their streamers. I prefer to keep the digital-to-analogue conversion in a separate box and only upgrade it when something significantly better in matters of digital-to-analogue conversion comes out.

I assume that you have the original Renew (DS/0) which came from a first generation Klimax DS.

I too found that a (Sonore microRendu) renderer with Hugo DAC was pretty much the equal (and in some ways possibly better) of the Renew DS/0 I used to own. However, I found that there were a number of logistical issues with the renderer/DAC. I much prefer the Linn Kazoo app (and its easy access to Internet Radio) than the apps I could get to work with the microRendu/Hugo combination.

The real decision maker for me was when I upgraded from the Renew DS to the Klimax DS/1. The difference I found between the two was pretty massive, and much more than I had anticipated. To my ears the DS/1 is significantly better all round than my microRendu/Hugo combination. Obviously, even a second hand Klimax DS/1 is fairly expensive, but you could sell your Renew DS and purchase a Renew DS/1 for not an awful lot of money, and assuming the Renew DS/1 is almost as good as the Klimax DS/1 you will in my opinion be getting a better sounding system.

You may not choose to go down this route, but if you can find a dealer with a DS/1, then a comparison with your DS/0 might prove interesting.     

If you do go for something like a Melco with external DAC then do make sure that you will be happy with the control applications available to you.

Adam Zielinski posted:

Generally, the consensus on this forum is that NAS + streamer is a preferred choice. 
I once compared by UnitiServe + nDAC vs my NDX and I chose the latter.

If I may offer an alternative way of upgrading your ‘sound’ - try a HiCap DR on the 282.

Hi Adam. 

From reading several posts i thought that quite a few of the Naimees' here preferred NAS > Streamer > Hugo.

Thanks for the advice of the hi-cap - i am eyeing one up at the moment, although non-DR.....

nbpf posted:

RustyZip posted:

...

What im basically asking is - pound for pound, would i get "more for my money" going the Music Server + DAC route, or staying with the NAS + Streamer  ??

...

I doubt that your question can be meaningfull answered in this generality and I am also not sure that, as suggested by Adam, there is a....................................

......................................necessarily because they are not anymore happy with the DACs inside their streamers. I prefer to keep the digital-to-analogue conversion in a separate box and only upgrade it when something significantly better in matters of digital-to-analogue conversion comes out.

Thank you nbpf for the very detailed reply, certainly got me thinking even more, and i agree on what you think too.

The main reason im hovering whether to change is that i was thinking of getting a better NAS, storage unit - like a melco or Innuos - but then they can also be used as a music server taking the output to a DAC.

Also as DAC technology seems to be moving ahead and changing so fast, it seems odd to pay big bucks for a streamer with a DAC built in - for the thousands it would cost i would want it to last a long time in my system - like at least five years or so - and i can imagine that DAC technology would move forward quite a way in that time.  I could buy a standalone DAC in the future to front-end the streamer but then it just seems such a waste of money to buy the streamer with a DAC built-in in the first place.

Another idea with the music server + DAC route, is that i can get rid of the CD Player, and purchase a CD Transport and pop that through the DAC - again saving money.

If you stay with the network server + networked streamer player format, I would be sure to have a hard listen before putting money in a high-end UPnP server device over a QNAP or Synology nas running Asset or MinimServer (or a Roon Core server).   The money may well do better spent on other items.

RustyZip posted:

 

P.S.  I borrowed a Bel Canto RefStream and Chord Hugo DAC and found that it was just as good, if not a smidging better than the Linn Klimax Renew DS - and thats got me thinking even more about all this.

Indeed, generally in some circles, especially engineering ones, it’s is seen as prefereable to physically separate and decouple noisy electronic state machine engines such as network stacks from sensitive audio circuitry such as DACs.

Naim have done what they can do in their streamers and have gone to some lengths especially in the new ND555 to allow very good decoupling, but at a  cost and added complexity ... However ultimately true separation is going to be almost certainly  ptefereable. At a recent meeting with Naim.. the subject of decoupling came up.. and if a Statement DAC/Streamer appears we may see some changes in further decoupling and I suspect new DAC technology ... as well as including possibly fibre Ethernet. Put it bluntly if an Ethernet cable or WAV vs FLAC makes an audible difference on playback the system is ultimately bound by noise decoupling limitations.

in the Naim portfolio you are a little limited right now, but that might change... so using a Naim streamer transport into offboard DAC all other things being equal will be quite likely preferable. It certainly works for me.. it’s also simpler and potentially better performance/cost ratio to physically decouple... especially at the higher end ... food for thought....

Hmack posted:

I assume that you have the original Renew (DS/0) which came from a first generation Klimax DS.

I too found that a (Sonore microRendu) renderer with Hugo DAC was pretty much the equal (and in some ways possibly better) of the Renew DS/0 I used to own. However, I found that there were a number of logistical issues with the renderer/DAC. I much prefer the Linn Kazoo app (and its easy access to Internet Radio) than the apps I could get to work with the microRendu/Hugo combination.

The real decision maker for me was when I upgraded from the Renew DS to the Klimax DS/1. The difference I found between the two was pretty massive, and much more than I had anticipated. To my ears the DS/1 is significantly better all round than my microRendu/Hugo combination. Obviously, even a second hand Klimax DS/1 is fairly expensive, but you could sell your Renew DS and purchase a Renew DS/1 for not an awful lot of money, and assuming the Renew DS/1 is almost as good as the Klimax DS/1 you will in my opinion be getting a better sounding system.

You may not choose to go down this route, but if you can find a dealer with a DS/1, then a comparison with your DS/0 might prove interesting.     

If you do go for something like a Melco with external DAC then do make sure that you will be happy with the control applications available to you.

Hi Hmack.

To be honest, im not sure whether its a Renew DS/0 or DS/1.

Its about 2.5 years old, and i bought it "new" off a chap that was upgrading his Klimax DS.

He described his as a Mk 1 Linn Klimax DS - im not sure whether he meant it was the first version, or a DS/1  ?!?

Ive had a look at the box and it just says "Renew DS" - no numbers, so i think its a DS/0 - i had it at a very low price, so i dont really mind either way.

And thats another good point you made - regarding the control applications....  No good if its got a crappy interface !

It sounds as though yours is almost certainly a Renew DS/0. This will have been built by Linn using most of the components of an original Mk 1 Klimax DS, but has an upgraded 'dynamik' power supply.

The original DS was very good indeed for its day, but the Renew DS/1 which uses most of  the components from a Klimax DS/1 that has been upgraded really is much better, so try to listen to one if you can. 

RustyZip posted:

Adam Zielinski posted:

Generally, the consensus on this forum is that NAS + streamer is a preferred choice. 
I once compared by UnitiServe + nDAC vs my NDX and I chose the latter.

If I may offer an alternative way of upgrading your ‘sound’ - try a HiCap DR on the 282.

Hi Adam. 

From reading several posts i thought that quite a few of the Naimees' here preferred NAS > Streamer > Hugo.

Thanks for the advice of the hi-cap - i am eyeing one up at the moment, although non-DR.....

Ahhh... the Hugo vs Naim DAC debate
What I meant is that having a NAS and a dedicated streamer is a popular solution. Neat and tidy.

As to a HiCap - don’t bother with a non-DR version for your 282. Try to find a DR - makes for a difference.