Isolation Platforms, etc

Posted by: Jonners on 18 September 2018

I've recently re-joined the vinyl resurgence and re-acquired an LP12 which is the crowning glory on my Quadraspire rack. I've teamed it up with a Stageline to compliment the rest of my Naim-based system and all is sounding rather good but I'm wondering if it could sound better.

Has any Forum members opinions on whether "isolation" products (platforms/"feet") would yield a sonic improvement and even if it's worth swapping out the stock Naim cable supplied with the Stageline for something a bit fancier?

I love a good tinker as much as the next man but I want to avoid falling victim to snake oil purveyors!

 

Posted on: 20 September 2018 by ChrisSU
French Rooster posted:
ChrisSU posted:

5mm sounds a bit thin?

5 cm,  error typing Chrissu.

That sounds more likely! I thought most turntables preferred low mass supports, but maybe it’s not that simple. 

Posted on: 20 September 2018 by ChrisSU
Jonners posted:
ChrisSU posted:

Most laminate flooring is laid over a thin layer of underlay, anything from 2mm to 12mm thick, often made of soft, spongy material. This may not help the stability of the rack above. Maybe worth screwing the laminate to the boards beneath to see if it helps. 

Thanks Chrissu, that seems a pretty pragmatic idea!

Best to get the fundamentals right before spending cash on fancy toys!

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by GerryMcg
ChrisSU posted:
French Rooster posted:
ChrisSU posted:

5mm sounds a bit thin?

5 cm,  error typing Chrissu.

That sounds more likely! I thought most turntables preferred low mass supports, but maybe it’s not that simple. 

Granite works for me under my turntable. I was using an irregular shaped piece and decided to replace it with a perspex sheet cut to size.  I discarded the granite and placed the perspex under my turntable, on top of the Townshend pods. Immediately there was a significant deterioration to the SQ most clearly with bass reproduction.  This may be a case of the perspex and Townshend pods interface, also the deck being non-suspended.The TT now sits on top of the perspex sheet with the old piece of granite between this and the pods, until I can source a bespoke (5 cm) piece of granite.

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by ChrisSU
GerryMcg posted:
ChrisSU posted:
French Rooster posted:
ChrisSU posted:

5mm sounds a bit thin?

5 cm,  error typing Chrissu.

That sounds more likely! I thought most turntables preferred low mass supports, but maybe it’s not that simple. 

Granite works for me under my turntable. I was using an irregular shaped piece and decided to replace it with a perspex sheet cut to size.  I discarded the granite and placed the perspex under my turntable, on top of the Townshend pods. Immediately there was a significant deterioration to the SQ most clearly with bass reproduction.  This may be a case of the perspex and Townshend pods interface, also the deck being non-suspended.The TT now sits on top of the perspex sheet with the old piece of granite between this and the pods, until I can source a bespoke (5 cm) piece of granite.

Perhaps I should gave said low mass RIGID supports. I don’t claim to be an expert here, but I would have thought perspex would be a bit flexible. 

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by French Rooster
GerryMcg posted:
ChrisSU posted:
French Rooster posted:
ChrisSU posted:

5mm sounds a bit thin?

5 cm,  error typing Chrissu.

That sounds more likely! I thought most turntables preferred low mass supports, but maybe it’s not that simple. 

Granite works for me under my turntable. I was using an irregular shaped piece and decided to replace it with a perspex sheet cut to size.  I discarded the granite and placed the perspex under my turntable, on top of the Townshend pods. Immediately there was a significant deterioration to the SQ most clearly with bass reproduction.  This may be a case of the perspex and Townshend pods interface, also the deck being non-suspended.The TT now sits on top of the perspex sheet with the old piece of granite between this and the pods, until I can source a bespoke (5 cm) piece of granite.

For me the granite base works better than a hard piece of wood. I had a suspended turntable before on it and now a non suspended ( rega rp10).   From what I read sometimes, 3 cm is a minimum.   Granite is nice too, when polished.

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by French Rooster
ChrisSU posted:
GerryMcg posted:
ChrisSU posted:
French Rooster posted:
ChrisSU posted:

5mm sounds a bit thin?

5 cm,  error typing Chrissu.

That sounds more likely! I thought most turntables preferred low mass supports, but maybe it’s not that simple. 

Granite works for me under my turntable. I was using an irregular shaped piece and decided to replace it with a perspex sheet cut to size.  I discarded the granite and placed the perspex under my turntable, on top of the Townshend pods. Immediately there was a significant deterioration to the SQ most clearly with bass reproduction.  This may be a case of the perspex and Townshend pods interface, also the deck being non-suspended.The TT now sits on top of the perspex sheet with the old piece of granite between this and the pods, until I can source a bespoke (5 cm) piece of granite.

Perhaps I should gave said low mass RIGID supports. I don’t claim to be an expert here, but I would have thought perspex would be a bit flexible. 

Hey Chrissu, I just checked the hrs site.  They are known for having one of the best isolation platforms for turntables.   Their platforms models have 12kg to 16 kg weight, so I feel it is more high mass.   My granite base has around 20 kg( 5cm), but 3/4 cm should be enough.

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by GerryMcg

Hi Chrissy, the Perspex is a bit flexible, but I did not think it would be a problem with the pods beneath, so wrong. 

French Rooster, How big is your base, 20kg seems very heavy to me. My shelves are 60x45 cm and I would think that they are no more than 4kg from memory.

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by French Rooster
GerryMcg posted:

Hi Chrissy, the Perspex is a bit flexible, but I did not think it would be a problem with the pods beneath, so wrong. 

French Rooster, How big is your base, 20kg seems very heavy to me. My shelves are 60x45 cm and I would think that they are no more than 4kg from memory.

Maybe I exaggerated, I don’t know really if it’s 20kg. Granite is heavy and I have 5cm, maybe 5 cm larger and longer vs a rega turntable.   Perhaps it’s 15 kg.   But anyway, you ask them what you want, like the color, polished or not,  3 cm or more....you give them your specs.

You can see the photos on my profile page. I had first 2 cm and add 3 cm later ( so 2 colors).

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by Huge

0.6m x 0.45m x 0.05m x 3,500kg/m3 = 47.25kg

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by ChrisSU
Huge posted:

0.6m x 0.45m x 0.05m x 3,500kg/m3 = 47.25kg

I’m going for 0.6 x 0.5 x 2,500 = 33.75 for granite. If that’s too light, maybe try basalt or gabbro. Not quite sure if this is getting us any closer to perfect sound quality though!

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by GerryMcg

Crikey, i'm stronger than I thought!  But .6m x .45m x .005m =4.725kg.

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by French Rooster

So mine is around 0,45 m X 0,15m X 0,05m X 3,5= 

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by French Rooster

I don’t know how to calculate because I find 0,0126?

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by ChrisSU

.45 x .15 is a strange shape?!

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by French Rooster
ChrisSU posted:

.45 x .15 is a strange shape?!

I will check at home.  It is around 10cm larger and 10cm longer vs the rp10.

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by French Rooster

The real dimensions of my granite slab are:   38cm X  48cm X  5cm.  So not what I wrote and supposed before.  I don’t know the weight but I am curious to know how it can be calculated.

Posted on: 21 September 2018 by ChrisSU

0.38 x 0.48 x 0.05 = 0.00912 x 2,500 = 22.8kg

That’s the volume of it in cubic metres, multiplied by 2,500kg, the weight of a typical sample of granite. Huge said 3,500kg, which I think is a little high. What is sold as granite is often not actually granite by the correct geological definition, so this can only be an approximate figure. 

Posted on: 22 September 2018 by Huge

Yes the 3,500 is too high for granite.

Sorry I wan't able to correct this earlier I had to go out yesterday.

Posted on: 22 September 2018 by ChrisSU

Apologies for the pedantry, Huge, as a geologist in a former life, I thought your figure looked a little high. 

Posted on: 22 September 2018 by Huge

No probs, I later realised that I'd used the SG for a synthetic mineral loaded ceramic  material I use to build my own speaker plinths.

Posted on: 22 September 2018 by Jonners

Well folks I am biting the bullet and going for a wall shelf. Townshend Pods plus granite slab was too much money. I am buying a Project shelf from a local dealer who will fit and also move my TV so the Sondek's lid won't be fouled when I lift it to spin a record. I looked at a TP Vulkan but prefer the Project design.

Posted on: 23 September 2018 by ChrisSU
Jonners posted:

Well folks I am biting the bullet and going for a wall shelf. Townshend Pods plus granite slab was too much money. I am buying a Project shelf from a local dealer who will fit and also move my TV so the Sondek's lid won't be fouled when I lift it to spin a record. I looked at a TP Vulkan but prefer the Project design.

I thought you said before that you had a stud wall, I hope it’s a sturdy one. 

Posted on: 23 September 2018 by Jonners
ChrisSU posted:
Jonners posted:

Well folks I am biting the bullet and going for a wall shelf. Townshend Pods plus granite slab was too much money. I am buying a Project shelf from a local dealer who will fit and also move my TV so the Sondek's lid won't be fouled when I lift it to spin a record. I looked at a TP Vulkan but prefer the Project design.

I thought you said before that you had a stud wall, I hope it’s a sturdy one. 

I do indeed. Project make 5 shelfs and the one I have gone for is designed for stud walls. I have checked my insurance just in case......

Posted on: 23 September 2018 by ChrisSU

Fair enough, I haven’t noticed that wall shelf model before. I’m sure your dealer knows what he’s doing. 

Posted on: 30 September 2018 by Jonners

Quick update on this topic. The Project shelf was fitted last week by a local dealer who I also bought my tv from. He used some specialist screws specifically designed for plasterboard stud walls as they distribute load evenly. He said they use them for mounting big tv's on walls, some weighing north of 40kg so he was confident. Well, they certainly did the trick as it hasn't budged 1mm! The Project shelf is great value at £130 and nicely designed and dampened. It has spikes and an mdf baseboard to finetune for level. The LP12 fits just fine and sounds great, an improvement over it's previous position on the top of my Quadraspire. Happy days!