Streaming new vs older recordings

Guinnless posted:

French Rooster posted:

ChrisSU posted:

I'm struggling with the concept of one belt that can make a platter run faster than another! I think Isaac Newton might have something to say about that - am I missing something here?

I read that an increased diameter of an old belt can run the platter faster....

Wear on the inside of the belt leading to a larger diameter belt would slow the platter down, surely?

I don’t know, I just read that. The article was talking about used belt and glued particules.....sorry but my english is not accurate enough.

Anyway, if I was the OP, I would bring my turntable to a dealer, to check all.

thanks all - yes, I bought a new white belt when I got my amp serviced and tweeter replaced a couple of weeks ago. So the 15 year old ish black belt was very stretched and was slow but stable, not with flutter - and now the new white belt is a wee bit fast but stable and without flutter too. Paul in Moorgate gave me precisely the same advice as Richard above - flutter bad, small speed difference not particuarly bad in itself. Basically with a new Rega MM phono stage and white belt and new leads from the phono stage to the 272, and serviced 150x and mended speaker the whole system is just great. I have never loved listening to music as much as this, and have almost completely stopped watching youtube.

With a strobe card last night the TT lines were going steadily and slowly left/clockwise, i.e. a bit faster than 33.3.  And tonight I just measured the TT speed with the rpm free app on a phone and it said 33.8-34 rpm - and it said 45.5-45.7 rpm too. So both speeds were about .5 too fast. But they sound fine, and hopefully even a tad better with an Elys 2 soon.

So I can either just enjoy the slightly faster speed. Adnd/or wait for a while and see if the white belt stretches and slows to 33.3 of its own accord. Or I could buy a Speed Box and keep the speed at 33.3 with that. But does the speed box work, or is that just a waste of money as the tolerance is ok as it is?

The most important is that you feel the music sounding right and that you enjoy.   I had the previous models of rega before, the p25 and p9.  They were running a bit faster too, but I didn’t bother me.    I am still listening to lps and buying some at discogs, a marvelous site.

If modern recordings were recorded in analog like in the past, I would not stream so often.  It is a great pleasure to open a new lp, read it, smell it, and put on the platter.   

Guinnless posted:

French Rooster posted:

ChrisSU posted:

I'm struggling with the concept of one belt that can make a platter run faster than another! I think Isaac Newton might have something to say about that - am I missing something here?

I read that an increased diameter of an old belt can run the platter faster....

Wear on the inside of the belt leading to a larger diameter belt would slow the platter down, surely?

No. The relationship is the size of the pulley and inner platter rim: the belt size/tightness doesn’t matter as long as it is small/tight enough to not slip on either, and large/loose enough to not pull so hard as to pull the shafts/bearings enough for friction (of either platter or motor) to slow down the motor. Change in elasticity with ageing, and stretching, of the belt to the point where it may slip is the prime reason for changing a belt.

Although probably insignificant in practice, one thing that could happen if indeed there is wear on the belt, increasing its internal diameter and making it looser, might be deposition of that belt compound on the rotating surfaces, making them larger - now that might alter speed, depending on the relative change in dameter of each, however even in the lifetime of a turntable with those surfaces never cleaned it would seem surprising for wear deposition from a belt to have sufficient effect to be perceptible unless the belt is slipping (causing slowing, and possible fluctuations in speed, likely to be audible), but I can’t say it can’t.

Well, that's interesting - the belt tightness doesn't change the speed. I didn't realise that. My new white belt is certainly tight enough. When I put it on the 45 setting the platter jerks a bit as it settles into rotation. But then immediately settles into nice steady rotation. Overall, the TT sounds great now, so to Rooster's point, I'm not at all worried about any of this. Just trying to get the best out of it.

I suppose if one is obsessed with approaching perfect speed of reproduction cds or streaming are better. But one seems to pay for that with the slightly soulless quality of digital. So I'm happy having all 3 - each imperfect in its own way.

Also, the Led Zep stuff they have on Tidal is a rag bag of crap - so it's good that I can still play my old records. And this seems to apply to a lot of artists. So maybe Qobuz will be better - I'll try that when my Tidal experiment ends.

Anyway, there's a chap who is offering me a chance to try a used speed box, so I may get the chance soon to experiment with that before buying it, or not buying it.

JimDog posted:

Well, that's interesting - the belt tightness doesn't change the speed. I didn't realise that. My new white belt is certainly tight enough. When I put it on the 45 setting the platter jerks a bit as it settles into rotation. But then immediately settles into nice steady rotation. Overall, the TT sounds great now, so to Rooster's point, I'm not at all worried about any of this. Just trying to get the best out of it.

.

When I had a belt drive TT  with a heavy platter I always gave it a gentle manual push round on the rim as soon as I started it to help it get up to speed, saving strain on the belt and/or motor (though no idea if they minded the strain or not)

JimDog posted:

 

I suppose if one is obsessed with approaching perfect speed of reproduction cds or streaming are better. But one seems to pay for that with the slightly soulless quality of digital. So I'm happy having all 3 - each imperfect in its own way..

Nothing soulless about digital done well (if you haven’t heard them, try Chord Hugo DAC or upwards).

If you use the analogy of a blood vessel Analogue is a main artery and digital is a capillary. 

Bob the Builder posted:

If you use the analogy of a blood vessel Analogue is a main artery and digital is a capillary. 

Please explain that as an analogy, as it makes no sense to me.

Innocent Bystander posted:

When I had a belt drive TT  with a heavy platter I always gave it a gentle manual push round on the rim as soon as I started it to help it get up to speed, saving strain on the belt and/or motor (though no idea if they minded the strain or not)

I've always push started my LP12 as advised by my Linn dealer in the late '80s.

Thanks. I have just heard about this push start thing, and have tried it a few times recently. Will make it the norm from now on.

I have to admit that 'soulless' doesn't really mean much as I used it above.

Listening to or making great music however it happens is a 100% valid and real experience.

Turns out that my friend's speed box is the wrong voltage. But I feel good about chekcing all this out, and knowing that I understand it better now.

There is a residual mystery for me as to how a tighter belt doesn't speed up the platter rotation, but I guess that if all it's doing is transferring the rotation of a cog it can't really add speed to that however tight it is.

This has also got me thinking about how a CD turns and how a CD laser actually reads information off the disc - so ther's something else I can read up on.

Old recordings like Led Zep sound a bit soulless on digital, I join here Jimdog.  But modern recordings, specially on hirez, can sound fantastic by streaming ( not tidal but hirez downloads streamed locally).

I downloaded recently a relative recent album of Clapton, a tribute to JJ Cale, on 24/96 from Qobuz.   Album and sound is very good.

French Rooster posted:

 

I downloaded recently a relative recent album of Clapton, a tribute to JJ Cale, on 24/96 from Qobuz.   Album and sound is very good.

 

Not in danger of being converted, are you? 

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

 

I downloaded recently a relative recent album of Clapton, a tribute to JJ Cale, on 24/96 from Qobuz.   Album and sound is very good.

 

Not in danger of being converted, are you? 

Already converted IB.  great moments with my nds, but also my turntable.  I hope I understood your question well....?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

If you use the analogy of a blood vessel Analogue is a main artery and digital is a capillary. 

Please explain that as an analogy, as it makes no sense to me.

I meant that in my experience though both analogue and digital both carry the same signal to my ears and in my experience an analogue replay system always lets a larger and bigger signal through than digital.  It was a simple analogy and probably anatomically in correct but I thought it was an easy way of expressing my opinion.

French Rooster posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

French Rooster posted:

 

I downloaded recently a relative recent album of Clapton, a tribute to JJ Cale, on 24/96 from Qobuz.   Album and sound is very good.

 

Not in danger of being converted, are you? 

Already converted IB.  great moments with my nds, but also my turntable.  I hope I understood your question well....?

Yes it seems so!

Bob the Builder posted:

I meant that in my experience though both analogue and digital both carry the same signal to my ears and in my experience an analogue replay system always lets a larger and bigger signal through than digital.  It was a simple analogy and probably anatomically in correct but I thought it was an easy way of expressing my opinion.

Strange, because vinyl has more inherent constraints than digital, hence if you want to relate it to blood vessels it could be argued that vinyl equates to the smaller vessel. However, as I said in an earlier post so much depends on the mastering, which in either case could make much worse than the best of which the medium is capable, and there certainly is poor digital music around, which might explain your experience.

However, maybe this is diverting a bit far from the theme of this thread, except insofar as some older recordings may have started out analogue.