is there life after SL2's..........

If you like what SBLs and SL2s do I think it is unlikely that you will find much better. Having heard a very few modern designs at dems in recent years I am yet to be persuaded. Better in some areas undoubtedly, but not those important to me.

I look forward to how your search progresses given so few boundary designs are available these days.

Stu

If you like what SBLs and SL2s do I think it is unlikely that you will find much better.

Hmm - well, I used to have active SBLs which I liked, but now have passive S600 which I like a lot more.  Not heard SL2s so couldn't comment on them.  I think I would probably prefer DBLs to the S600 - though the ones I heard years ago were active.  But certainly I don't prefer SBLs.

But the problem is that it's all personal and also room-moderated.

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions....any others also appreciated

I listened to S400's a while back...not to my taste, had some strengths however not for me

The Fact 12 could be of interest, although don't want to go the 500 route...think I may need some dosh for Fraim at some point soon..

So far I have a dealer who can demo Focal Kanta, Kudos Titan, and Kef Reference

one who can demo Sonus Faber Olympica, Focal Kanta, and PMC Fact

and one who can demo B & W

getting there..

Have a good Wednesday

I'd go to the dealer who can demo the Kudos Titan against the Kef Reference! It's your man, don't let him feel that :-)

I think Magico got a mention earlier. I had a listen to the S3 alongside three others a year or so ago. The thread was some thing like “speaker shoot out”. Others were Wilson, SF and Focal. The S3 was the only one that did justice to the music. There was rumour of a mark II coming out. I don’t think that has happened yet. No I didn’t get them in the end but worth a listen. The new 808 didn’t work for me either. Bottom line is there is plenty to choose from so be open minded and take your time. It took me about a year to leap. Even then this was an act of faith as I live in Greece and only managed one home dem.

Dave

Hi, S3 looks good

a little expensive..

appreciate yr comments on the open mindedness..lets see where we get to..

I am personally super happy with my Audio Physic Tempo 25 and would always upgrade within their range.

I heard the brand new Midex in Munich this year and instantly liked it a whole lot. But they have a full range of speakers, for any budget ;-)

Steffen

Moderated Post:  Link removed.  Please don't post unauthorised commercial links in the Hifi Corner.  Thanks.

Naim could resolve this dilemma by coming out with a new boundry speaker, they even have someone to make the cabinets for them and maybe even the drive units. With a Naim badge on them they won’t have to sound like Focals.

I moved from SL2 to Kudos 707. So much better in every respect.

BP.

I wouldn’t swap SL2s for any of the speakers on your list, frankly. But it would be helpful to know what you’re looking for that the SL2s don’t offer enough of for your tastes: what you are looking to improve, and what currently satisfies you about them.

I was impressed with the PMC range especially the Fact's. Couldn't afford them though so chose a pair from the cheaper range. Still expensive though. Rich 

Hi.   CDs 3 555 252 300 all on fraim, power lines, Ovator 400, seperate mains spur, heaven, I still can't understand why everybody cans ovator said, I must Pe tome death, or completely bonkers.

steve

What about your hiline? you forgot about that.

I guess all those that “can” the S400 have herd something better, that is cheaper in price.  

Things need balance , including posting.

I see on a popular nz sale site some S400 for $5000 NZ (£2500)  personally I’d rather eat shards of glass myself, but that’s me. You can get a good pair of S600 on the SC market in the UK for around £3000 keep an eye open....

if you look at the SC market the prices say a lot.

Enjoy your system, I bet it sounds fantastic for you.

Me I’m not a S speaker boy or a nap 300 boy. I love the cds3, never herd a 252, and wish I had a 555 PS. Powerlines upset the pRat in my big olive system so not for me either. All on phased Mana, I love it but not for some.

I too have a kick arse mains spur with an old school 30 amp ceramic fuse on the biggest earth  bus ever connected to a 50 mm sq eart wire that’s snakes off to a copper earth rod that is grounded in at my  back yard garden hose, the boxes have piggy backed power cords going into a swicthless wall socket. So your not the only nutter here that’s for sure.

Calling HH Mr trout was disrespectful and rather rude.  He Just challenged your statement, why the aggression?  While I can’t see eye to eye with him sometimes because he’s been rather abrupt and  condescending when he thought I was wrong (and I wasn’t, yes naim confirmed its 3.6nm for that bottom cross bar on the sl2????) you need to know that he would destroy you in any intellectual debate whether it’s about audio, fast food (well maybe) or rocket science. He’s had systems that make yours look pedestrian, but decided to drop the box count. Hes one of the most  knowledgeable members of forum and only wants to help other naim like people. I’m sure he takes the pressure off Richard and all for the hobby. Without doubt he doesn’t need or want me to defend him, but I’m just saying.

Its a funny old game isn’t it.

Hi.  Soundsfaber Please accept my sincere apology for upsetting yourself and Hungry

halibut, it must be very upsetting being call trout or salmon when your real name is halibut, thank you for explaining to me that Ovators are no good because they are cheap secondhand, however I cannot recall any speaker that gains in value when they are secondhand 

I feel very lucky that you have taken the time to set me straight on hifi you obviously know everthing

steve

Stevek posted:

Hi.  Soundsfaber Please accept my sincere apology for upsetting yourself and Hungry

halibut, it must be very upsetting being call trout or salmon when your real name is halibut, thank you for explaining to me that Ovators are no good because they are cheap secondhand, however I cannot recall any speaker that gains in value when they are secondhand 

I feel very lucky that you have taken the time to set me straight on hifi you obviously know everthing

steve

Mate this is why you are what you are.

I love my SL2s but it really doesn’t bother me if someone else doesn’t. We like what we like and should have the confidence in our choices. Loads of people like the Ovators and that’s good, they are very nice looking speakers. My challenge was simply that I don’t think the S400 is better. It’s just different. 

I’ll be interested to hear what the OP comes up with. I certainly think quite a lot will need to be spent to categorically beat the SL2. 

The other day, Richard from the Forum was round and we listened to various bits of music. When I played an album by Fourplay, which he knows well and recommended to me, he said that it sounded more laid back on my system and that his made it sound more exciting. We then played a Gang of Four album, and there was drive, excitement and attack aplenty. That had me wondering if his speakers (Kudos S20) give an almost artificial glaze of excitement to music that might perhaps not warrant it. I don’t know. Certainly with my speakers I just put on music and never think about the system. Relaxed music is relaxed and exciting music exciting. I wonder sometimes if speakers that sound impressive initially are ultimately wearing. It certainly makes choosing new ones really hard, and risky if you are spending a lot of money. Choosing electronics is a piece of cake by comparison. 

When I first got my SL2 speakers a good friend (ex naim dealer) called  around to access . His very first comment was “  effortless isn’t it” 

At that time I knew it’s a love affair until one of us dies. 

And once again a thread demonstrates that speakers are a very personal choice - and that some people’s personal choice / taste / preference is sometimes strongly defended without recognising that other people just have different preferences.  There does seem to be a strong divide between people who like SBLs and SL2s and those who like ovators - not sure I have seen anyone like both equally. I haven’t heard ovators I like but I would not say anything other than that’s my preference - ie, it’s too arrogant to say that one is objectively better than the other

I don’t know how much of my preference is down to the room being used - I recently bought SL2s from someone who had them running 2x250dr active but I much preferred my SBLs running on a 300 in my room. Put the SL2s in my room on the 300, though, and they beat the SBLs by quite a margin, so I bought them (he’s still searching). 

Before I got the SL2s I also heard kudos Titan 505s at a show powered by 272/300 and preferred my SBLs at home (my nds/555/52 was probably a factor in that preference so not a fair comparison) though I did like the 505s very much. If I were shopping for new speakers I would try 505s and 606s. I think the 707s would be too big for my room though I suppose it might be fun trying

Sounsfaber posted:

What about your hiline? you forgot about that.

I guess all those that “can” the S400 have herd something better, that is cheaper in price.  

Things need balance , including posting.

I see on a popular nz sale site some S400 for $5000 NZ (£2500)  personally I’d rather eat shards of glass myself, but that’s me. You can get a good pair of S600 on the SC market in the UK for around £3000 keep an eye open....

if you look at the SC market the prices say a lot.

Enjoy your system, I bet it sounds fantastic for you.

Me I’m not a S speaker boy or a nap 300 boy. I love the cds3, never herd a 252, and wish I had a 555 PS. Powerlines upset the pRat in my big olive system so not for me either. All on phased Mana, I love it but not for some.

I too have a kick arse mains spur with an old school 30 amp ceramic fuse on the biggest earth  bus ever connected to a 50 mm sq eart wire that’s snakes off to a copper earth rod that is grounded in at my  back yard garden hose, the boxes have piggy backed power cords going into a swicthless wall socket. So your not the only nutter here that’s for sure.

Calling HH Mr trout was disrespectful and rather rude.  He Just challenged your statement, why the aggression?  While I can’t see eye to eye with him sometimes because he’s been rather abrupt and  condescending when he thought I was wrong (and I wasn’t, yes naim confirmed its 3.6nm for that bottom cross bar on the sl2????) you need to know that he would destroy you in any intellectual debate whether it’s about audio, fast food (well maybe) or rocket science. He’s had systems that make yours look pedestrian, but decided to drop the box count. Hes one of the most  knowledgeable members of forum and only wants to help other naim like people. I’m sure he takes the pressure off Richard and all for the hobby. Without doubt he doesn’t need or want me to defend him, but I’m just saying.

Its a funny old game isn’t it.

I assume your last paragraph is taking the Pisces.

Gentlemen!

SL2 vs Ovators - is it a PRaT thing?  I.e. if you appreciate other aspects besides PRaT or if it's PRaT only. I prefer rock music so a lot of  PRaT is then really nice. 

So if you recommend a speaker - a speaker with excellent PRaT, with hard hitting and deep bass, strong dynamics and SLAM. What speaker is that? Or a few in different price ranges...

THANKS!

ameden posted:

Thanks Chris

The guy I bought the SL2's off at the time had replaced them with the previous generation of the Titan 808...sounded very nice..

Although, prob a little too large for my room.

 

Cheers

Interesting, Ameden - that's the change I made - SL2 to Kudos 88.

I now have Kudos 707's and love 'em. SL2's are fabulous loudspeakers and take some beating. With me, it was a combination of wanting something a bit (sonically) warmer - particularly with a digital source - and to cure an uneven bass response in my room. Some frequencies were exaggerated and others, sucked-out with the SL2's; though I imply no criticism of the loudspeaker in this regard.

The isobaric bass-loading of the Kudos models works really well for me, and permits a 'relatively close to boundary' placement, whilst delivering excellent bass clarity and control. I now get a much more even bass response, coupled with a pellucid and layered mid-band, and sweet sparkling top-end.

A pair of Wharfedales would probably feel at home!

Good luck.

John.

Thanks John for the considered comments - very useful.

The Kudos seems to suit the Naim palette well and I am looking forward to hearing them.

I love the SL2's, however there may be something  out there that may surprise...we'll see...

Thanks for everyone's input, much appreciated

I have identified the Dealers ready for the first demos, after my forthcoming hols I will be listening and if one/some stand out a home demo will follow..

Will advise in due course.

Many thanks

Jonn posted:

Sounsfaber posted:

What about your hiline? you forgot about that.

I guess all those that “can” the S400 have herd something better, that is cheaper in price.  

Things need balance , including posting.

I see on a popular nz sale site some S400 for $5000 NZ (£2500)  personally I’d rather eat shards of glass myself, but that’s me. You can get a good pair of S600 on the SC market in the UK for around £3000 keep an eye open....

if you look at the SC market the prices say a lot.

Enjoy your system, I bet it sounds fantastic for you.

Me I’m not a S speaker boy or a nap 300 boy. I love the cds3, never herd a 252, and wish I had a 555 PS. Powerlines upset the pRat in my big olive system so not for me either. All on phased Mana, I love it but not for some.

I too have a kick arse mains spur with an old school 30 amp ceramic fuse on the biggest earth  bus ever connected to a 50 mm sq eart wire that’s snakes off to a copper earth rod that is grounded in at my  back yard garden hose, the boxes have piggy backed power cords going into a swicthless wall socket. So your not the only nutter here that’s for sure.

Calling HH Mr trout was disrespectful and rather rude.  He Just challenged your statement, why the aggression?  While I can’t see eye to eye with him sometimes because he’s been rather abrupt and  condescending when he thought I was wrong (and I wasn’t, yes naim confirmed its 3.6nm for that bottom cross bar on the sl2????) you need to know that he would destroy you in any intellectual debate whether it’s about audio, fast food (well maybe) or rocket science. He’s had systems that make yours look pedestrian, but decided to drop the box count. Hes one of the most  knowledgeable members of forum and only wants to help other naim like people. I’m sure he takes the pressure off Richard and all for the hobby. Without doubt he doesn’t need or want me to defend him, but I’m just saying.

Its a funny old game isn’t it.

I assume your last paragraph is taking the Pisces.

Down under we say “taking the pus” I’ll let you decide 

btw just looked at you profile. Well 3x500 into DBL. lovely ????????

I couldn’ t find anything that matched the SL2s on their strong points of speed and articulacy, including the big Kudos Titans (original), which brought a little more scale and slightly sweeter upper treble to the picture, but were in my opinion otherwise way behind. What I missed most with the SL2s was scale and gravitas, especially on big orchestral pieces, but also grand piano. In the end I found it with the Shahinians (from the Obelisks up). I ended up with Diapasons (much to my surprise - the intention was to downsize but they were irresistible). They lose very little in speed and slam compared to the SL2, but there’s nothing I’ve heard that compares for scale and presence for acoustic ensembles, from jazz trios to full symphony orchestra with organ, and they handle everything else with lifelike ease.

Two sets of SL2s on an auction site right now. One set looks very nice with the optional finish and I admit I looked twice but I’ve always been happy with my S400s and anyway I’m saving for a bigger boat so I’m going to refrain from looking for a reason to spend more money on hifi.