is there life after SL2's..........

Have tested many speakers after sl2 For me, Neat Ultimatum xls with original strands is outstanding

Further interim update following feedback..

listened Wedn and yesterday at the Dealers ….B & W 804 d3. Sonus Faber Venere 3, and ProAc D48R  (Naim system for B &W, and non-Naim for t'others)

Sonus...my first proper listen to this brand... top end and mid-range pretty good, bass not enough..a little smooth overall....however not a bad sound for the bucks, just lacked a little excitement and scale for me....will try the the Oiympica next week.

B & W...lots of energy out of these, maybe a touch too 'loud' for my lugs,  liked them very much though...just not sure if on a long term, day to day basis I could live with them....a pretty good match for Naim I would say..

ProAc...very good overall sound, sweet treble, detailed mid, excellent bass (poss too much if not in some 'space' for those downward firing ports), great soundstage and scale, liked them a lot...for the money they are pretty damn fine !!.  (they were not run in at all and played via a Krell amp). I would expect they will suit Naim very well.

When I got home played the same tracks thro the SL2's,  the SL2 tweeter and mid are just brill, they just lack a little soundstage and bass against some of the speakers listened to...however no doubt, they are very good speakers that will take some beating...so far the shortened list for the contenders are currently ATC's and the ProAc's.

Kudos 606 and Kef Ref3 to follow later next week..

BR

Well, you’ve certainly heard a few so far. The SL2 is an interesting speaker and sometimes people think it lacks bass. The other day I was playing a new album of trio jazz and the acoustic bass was pretty subterranean, and I was pretty surprised. Most of the modern speakers I’ve heard, such as PMC and Kudos give a fuller sound in the bass, which I’m not sure isn’t somewhat artificial. The worst case was some Neats, which seemed to add bass when it wasn’t even there. 

Soundstage depth and accuracy isn’t their strongest suit, but it’s largely artificial anyway. I was at a chamber concert in the local church recently and shut my eyes and tried to make out exactly where the violin viola and cello were placed. It wasn’t possible. The area they excel is musical engagement - you can simply put on some music and forget about them. The system never draws attention to itself, it’s like it isn’t there. 

Something like the ProAc, at £6,300 is less than the SL2 cost when it was discontinued. I wouldn’t be surprised if you didn’t have to look at a much bigger budget to really better them. 

I’ll be interested to hear what you finally decide. 

Life after SL2s?

Not for me. Love 'em to bits, because they seem to me to get everything just right. But I am using them actively with 500 series electronics, which no doubt add significantly to their abilities.

Thanks HH, good comments..

To make sure I was getting the best from the SL2's, last week I had my local 'Mr Naim' come round and re-set up my black boxes & cables, the racks, and the SL2's..(he used to work at Naim so he understood the SL2's well).

The ATC's (at almost £10K) currently sound the 'nearest' to the SL2's, same sweet treble and detailed mid, plus some deeper bass, more soundstage and scale..(from the Dealer demo) - home demo of these next week..

currently digging up some hidden piggy banks as I think you may be right ref a bigger budget required !

BR

If you are contemplating spending c£10K on speakers it would be better to trade your NDS for a ND555 and keep the SL2s. You may be surprised how much tighter/deeper the bass will sound with the ND555 alongside all the other improvements.

Hi John

Interesting..thought about that...when the ND555/new streaming platform stabilises I may go that way, or with a combined 'super' pre/streamer...

I have absolutely enjoyed the SL2's for 5 years and feel that its maybe time to change, partic  following some recent system changes...time will tell, but only if I can find a 'better' speaker.

I also still use CD and Vinyl sources...

BR

You could also go active with another 300. Four more boxes though, so I can see why you may not be keen. 

Already got 12 black boxes...down from 14...no more please, as much as I love the 'green' glow.

Longer term future will very likely be a lot less, as you have similarly experienced...still with an excellent sound experience.

But for now... ('How soon is now')

BR

I agree. 12 is quite enough. In fact four is quite enough. I’ve had my SL2s three years now. A little while ago I had a ‘what if’ moment with active ATCs, but I didn’t act on it and the urge passed. With your brilliant amplification (I once had a 552/300 so know what it’s like) I tend to think that Jonn’s idea of an ND555 might be the best. The SL2s really are extraordinarily good. I’ve just been listening to Kraftwerk at a decent volume and the sound is incredible - effortless dynamics and hugely deep bass yet without a trace of boom or overhang. I’ve never heard a ported speaker that can do that - at least not one that doesn’t need yards behind it. Sometimes, we forget how good something is that we’ve already got. 

How soon is now: nice one. There’s a club if you’d like to go, you might meet somebody who really loves you...

Thanks HH

Lets see how the journey unfolds...for sure the SL2's will not be easily let go !!

If no new speakers, then maybe an ND555....

I am human....

BR

I’ve been on a similar tour this year. At a lower level. After the latest 15+ years with 22 year old SBL their finish started to  become a bit ragged and then all this stuff with gasket kits .. time to change and at the same time simplify my system.

I listened to most of the usual suspects. Kind of liked the Neat Momentums (isobaric), had a flirt with 30.1:s. 

I started to settle on the ATC SCM19 with a 300 after first dismissing that speaker (lesser electronics that time). That led me to the active SCM19A - I was suspicious, the built in ATC amps could hardly be naim-class and they probably are not - but running active they had enough of a head-start. Loved the 19A. Sealed-box bass like SBL.s. And 2-way. Active means no fighting the NACA5 and details almost lika an electrostatic panel speaker.

I then went one step further and tried the SCM40A but a bit bassy for a city flat. And compared to th 19A the 40A sounded a bit disengaged at low listening levels. But in a larger room and above lowest levels they are fantastic. 

So I have retired the SBL:s and now run with just 4-boxes and the SCM19A.

Thanks for sharing your journey...it sounds like you reached a very good end result !

I could quite easily see at some point in the future an active ATC set-up in the house, fronted by Naim….or similar.

Enjoy

BR

Me and the wife went to our local cinema to watch Bohemian Rhapsody, the story of Queen.

Great music and story. Loved it.

Have now played Night at the Opera on vinyl and am amazed how close my active SL2,s get to the sound from the cinema.

The SL2,s are driven actively but WOW they are so good.

Jonn posted:

If you are contemplating spending c£10K on speakers it would be better to trade your NDS for a ND555 and keep the SL2s. You may be surprised how much tighter/deeper the bass will sound with the ND555 alongside all the other improvements.

Completely agree. SL2s are just ‘right’ , and ND555 must be one of the best sources available. Can’t go wrong!

The thing with SL2s is that every time you upgrade up stream the better they get.

Agree, the SL2's are damn good, and they have enjoyed system upgrades to date..

Following a recent change from 252 to 552, I feel its a good time to re-look at what's' out there speaker wise..

Ref the ND555, based on likely s/h price of NDS...is the ND555 going to be three times better ? ...not heard it yet, just the NDX2.

Have a good Saturday

BR

S3 posted:

The thing with SL2s is that every time you upgrade up stream the better they get.

Isn’t that the case with pretty much all speakers!?

ChrisSU posted:

S3 posted:

The thing with SL2s is that every time you upgrade up stream the better they get.

Isn’t that the case with pretty much all speakers!?

When I upgraded on a pair of Thiel CS1.6 it brought out a bass note well beow the speaker’s nominal capability, particularly intrusive when playing led zep’s version of gallows tree, no amount of repositioning would integrate it into the music or lose it, a pair of NBLs sorted it. In a larger room and minus the 555ps on the CDX2 that very system gives no problems now and sounds better than it ever did.

Chrissu.... wouldn't agree with you there. Upgrading source, amplification etc can sometimes make speakers sound worse, although I've never found that to be the case with the Naim speakers I've owned, and upgrading to 500 electronics with the SL2s simply makes them quite amazing...

One thing that most people here would accept is that the SL2s are capable of showing improvements upstream, either source or amplification. You also have a ‘speaker that is unobtrusive being a boundary design and therefore easy to accommodate. I personally would look for a source upgrade. However, I would certainly hang on to the SL2s. After the honeymoon you might just miss their magic.

Stu

Agree with your initial points...ref source upgrade, I currently have NDS/555PS...what source upgrade would really elevate the SL2's to even greater levels ?

BR

ND555 according to many good folk of this parish....

Not to digress too much, have not heard the ND555 as yet, however have read all the posts on here with great interest..

Heard the NDX2, with N272 and 250DR...sounded very nice...was it an OMG moment compared with my previous NDX or current NDS...no, but never the less it was a good sound.

Observations from the posts (IMHO), and my own experiences..Naim have never been the best at product launches in terms of timing, product usability/usefulness, and QC....however you could always depend on their superb after-sales Customer service support to get a satisfactory fix in a reasonable time scale...I not sure this is the case now, responses from Salisbury seem to be slow and often poor..I do hope it gets better.

So, am I willing at this stage to spend some more mega-bucks on a new Naim streaming device that doesn't quite seem ready for sale...NO !...even if it may sound better than the NDS, and has a colour screen - that I prob can't see anyways, or turn off ?, and will prob have to replace in a few years time...and a less functional remote....blah, blah..

Having said all that, I am always happy to be convinced otherwise and will follow the ND555s' evolution with positive interest..

Meanwhile, I would feel more comfortable changing my speakers, if I can find a better sound...so back to listening to more speakers...

Much appreciate all the comments/suggestions to date..

BR

The screen can be set to mostly off, only coming on for a few seconds at each new selection. 

Back in the early age of CD after hearing an early player I decided to keep vinyl going as long as I could. It was quite a few years later that I heard a player I could listen to, something Tom Evans produced based on a Pioneer something or other but not something that could displace vinyl. The ND555 could displace vinyl and is the first digital player I’ve heard that doesn’t need an excuse.