Legacy streamers

I don’t think there is any chance that Naim will integrate support for another streaming service into the old streamers. BubbleUPnP seems to be the preferred workaround for this without adding extra boxes and wall warts. Or maybe an Innuos server. 

Naim without JV is the new Apple without Jobs, built in obsolescence is the new game unfortunately 

What is nice with most Naim is that there is no built in obsolescence which is why it tends to hold its value relatively well. The new streamers have improved SQ and increased interfacing over the older ones so there is a natural progression as Naim have fine tuned their streamer architecture. Also elsewhere many have found, certainly in the portable, mobile consumer space the built in obsolescence of severeal years ago no longer really applies... people just don’t upgrade like they used to.. business models are a changing...and some are finding this quite challenging.

As far as Naim and built in services.. it really is a regressive approach that is a little yesteryear... the approach these days is to interface into a service aggregator.. using UPnP, Chromecast, Airplay etc ... this allows a wide appeal... services like Tidal and to some extent Spotify mean very little to many Asian markets for example... this, and the development costs were the reason why Naim, so they told me,  have discontinued adding new embedded service integrations into their products.... the good thing with this approach it makes obsolescence even less likely...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

What is nice with most Naim is that there is no built in obsolescence which is why it tends to hold its value relatively well. The new streamers have improved SQ and increased interfacing over the older ones so there is a natural progression as Naim have fine tuned their streamer architecture. Also elsewhere many have found, certainly in the portable, mobile consumer space the built in obsolescence of severeal years ago no longer really applies... people just don’t upgrade like they used to.. business models are a changing...and some are finding this quite challenging.

As far as Naim and built in services.. it really is a regressive approach that is a little yesteryear... the approach these days is to interface into a service aggregator.. using UPnP, Chromecast, Airplay etc ... this allows a wide appeal... services like Tidal and to some extent Spotify mean very little to many Asian markets for example... this, and the development costs were the reason why Naim, so they told me,  have discontinued adding new embedded service integrations into their products.... the good thing with this approach it makes obsolescence even less likely...

Quite true - most people no longer need or want a new phone every 12-18 months.  Personally for me it's improvements say in phone camera quality/reduced battery life in existing phone that will win me over rather than cosmetic interface changes to iOS/Android or gimmicks (Animojis or similar).

While I can see the logic here it's only effective if the technology is mature and stable enough to be relatively flawless (domestic networking aside) - specifically I'll rant about lack of  gapless to the Nova via Qobuz' app or the fact that recent versions seem to initiate track playback which then restarts after 2-3 seconds when it was fine before.  Now none of this may be due to Naim's firmware or protocol implementations, however to the end user it looks bad - I know it could be Qobuz app not working well with Naim or a way Naim implements things, but it's a poor user experience that you won't necessarily get with 'built-in' services (though of course they may cease to function/be available for any number of reasons).

I wonder therefore if Naim ought to pursue 'built-in' apps not via the hardware but via the Naim app itself which could directly support these services and potentially 'cast' them properly to the 'streamer'.

Popeye posted:

Hi guys

What are people's thoughts on the now previous generation streamers. NDX/NDS.

As we are all aware and have been for some time if something happened with Tidal would that be the end of Hi definition integration within the units or would Naim try and support another provider?

This is the ever present danger with hardware supporting streaming audio/video services.

For example older AppleTVs will no longer work with YouTube due to YouTube API changes and Apple's tendency to abandon older platforms relatively quickly.

Same goes for many DVD/BluRay/AV Amp devices I have which will be in a similar position for streamed services due to lack of firmware updates for older models.

If Tidal go under I can't see any firmware update to address this via new partnerships on new or older streamers.

Ultimately, I think there's a huge benefit and continuing argument in favour of maintaining your own local digital music connection (and backups!).

It will be a shame if Tidal go under. I've switched last year from Spotify to get FLAC streaming and have been happy with the service for the most part. Not sure I'd want to go back to Spotify until they introduce a Hi-Fi streaming option. SuperUniti doesn't have any other streaming services built in, nor does it have Airplay. BubbleUPnP might be my only option if Tidal folds.

Not sure AppleTV is a valid example - I was using an ATV1, the one with the internal HDD and Component output, bought in 2005, up to May of this year - so 13 years. It was capable of a 720p/1080i signal and was able to play iTunes Movies, and any .m4v content I loaded to it.
It was only that access to the Apple Store was cut, on the grounds of Security technologies, did I have to move and then only moved to an ATV3, as no requirement for 4K playback. However, I much prefer the UI/UX of the ATV1

I have my NDS/555DR network player, with support upto 24/192 and DSD64 - but through Roon integration via the Sonore UPnP Bridge, I can play formats higher than these (24/352.8, DSD128 and DSD256), as well as MQA formats up to 24/96 (1st software unfold in the Roon Core). Think I am good for the next while.

Plus the ND555 uses the same DAC technology, with PCM1704U-K resistor ladder DAC chips, but later SHARC processing and some improved regulation - not exactly break-away technology shift.

simes_pep posted:

Not sure AppleTV is a valid example - I was using an ATV1, the one with the internal HDD and Component output, bought in 2005, up to May of this year - so 13 years. It was capable of a 720p/1080i signal and was able to play iTunes Movies, and any .m4v content I loaded to it.
It was only that access to the Apple Store was cut, on the grounds of Security technologies, did I have to move and then only moved to an ATV3, as no requirement for 4K playback. However, I much prefer the UI/UX of the ATV1

I think it's a perfect example in all honesty

YouTube changed APIs which meant ATV 2 which was no longer being updated could not provide the YouTube service, but ATV 3 could.

Same applies to your ATV 1 now that Apple have killed access to the Store, as you say for security issues as it's not updated either, and was based on OS X Tiger not tvOS as the current models are.   Devices relying on online services will lose functionality over time as support is dropped by manufacturers, but it's annoying when they still work and functionality is lost.

Out of interest were you still able to sync stuff from iTunes to it after the store support was lost and play it?  I still have several ATV 1's but I've not used them for a while, and have a funny feeling iTunes lost that syncing ability a few iterations ago.

It's a real shame the way AppleTV developed after ATV 1 - the internal drive was very useful as you know, but the product, which had great potential was really changed with ATV 2 to compete with low cost streamers - to those who appreciated ATV 1 it was worth the cost, but the general public were used to £20 DVD players etc and it probably did not sell well enough to continue with a hard drive based machine.

Going HDMI only was inevitable I suppose but Apple do tend to ditch old technology early (USB 3.0 replaced by USB C on current non-Air Macbooks).

ATV 1 actually came out in 2007, not 2005, there are reasons I remember this.

You may not be keen on 4k, but ATV 4 and 4k version did bring a lot to the party with Apps but I detest the touch remote which is so fiddly and easy to activate in error - loved the old white ATV 1/Mac remotes.

Also Apple have finally started taking certain things seriously where video is concerned - while their streams won't compete quite with 4k UHD BluRay, the audio/video will be more than good enough for most consumers, and the fact they are offering free upgrades to 4k video when available if you've bought in HD is good news.  A real shame they don't offer upgrades to HD/4k for early purchases only available in SD at the time.

It's only relatively recently we've had say '24 fps' output for iTunes films rather than being dictated by PAL/NTSC rates on some of the older machines even though they were outputting progressive not interlaced video.

No, with an iTunes update, access to the ATV1 was lost and with it the ability to prepare material and load it to the device.

Was it 2007, it could of been - it was bought to be part of a B&O connected system, separate to the Home Theatre/Listening Room. On the ATV1 I had an ALAC ripped CD-based library, serving through the B&O network serving active speakers in the Dining Room, Living Room and ceiling speakers in the Bathrooms. Playback was controlled by the Apple Remote on an iPhone or through iTunes on a Laptop.
It later on, it was then used for Movies and 'TV Show' content, taking material either from ripped DVDs or downloaded material, converting to the correct video format for uploading and playback.
It was a 'breakthrough' device, ahead of its time - but I certainly got 10 years out of it.
I always found PQ to be good enough, but then I am using a separate Video Processor, to perform any scaling and deinterlacing.

simes_pep posted:

No, with an iTunes update, access to the ATV1 was lost and with it the ability to prepare material and load it to the device.

Was it 2007, it could of been - it was bought to be part of a B&O connected system, separate to the Home Theatre/Listening Room. On the ATV1 I had an ALAC ripped CD-based library, serving through the B&O network serving active speakers in the Dining Room, Living Room and ceiling speakers in the Bathrooms. Playback was controlled by the Apple Remote on an iPhone or through iTunes on a Laptop.
It later on, it was then used for Movies and 'TV Show' content, taking material either from ripped DVDs or downloaded material, converting to the correct video format for uploading and playback.
It was a 'breakthrough' device, ahead of its time - but I certainly got 10 years out of it.
I always found PQ to be good enough, but then I am using a separate Video Processor, to perform any scaling and deinterlacing.

I thought that was the case.

I still have older bootable OS X computers with old iTunes versions so I'm hoping if I ever want to resurrect any of mine that I'll be able to sync.

If not, you probably know of them, but there are various 'patches' that can be installed on AppleTV 1 via the USB port which was 'for diagnostics' to allow for other functionality.