Electric car owners?

Bruce, I'll be interested in your experience with the i3.  I'm weighing up whether to run the Beemer estate for a while longer or make the jump.  The estate is such a great car I'm loathe to change - fast, economical, spacious ( 3 dogs), relatively cheap to run (until something big/expensive dies) - but as I have to drive into SW London with the dogs every so often it may be that I will be forced out of it if the diesel ban goes ahead.  Are you going for a range extender?

A point to get used to in terms of range, the heating and air conditioning when used will impact the range. So when you get the i3 you may want to test out both on shortish journeys to get a feel for what the range really is with heating on or air con. But do enjoy, the torque of an EV is quite special.

We logged all the journeys that my wife makes over about a month and on no single day did she get close to the 130mile range limit. Max was 105 miles in a day and that is not a regular journey. She does occasional long trips to see her Dad in Solihull, but she will use my comfy diesel for that or the train which almost goes to the door.

If maybe once or twice a year we'd need two long distance cars for a day or so we could always hire one. We will need one larger car always and my Volvo fits the bill perfectly at the moment.

We decided the range extender was not worth the extra, and I note a new version of the i3 is going to be launched next year with about 190miles range but it is more expensive and we did not feel we needed to wait/pay for that. Managed a slither of discount as a result, but the i3 is still not cheap. Back of envelope calculation from my wife's mileage would save us about £5k in fuel costs over 4 years at today's prices. We view it as a greener solution and hopefully enjoyable to own rather than really a cost saver. Residuals are pretty good, but insurance surprisingly expensive vs her old Audi A1.

I'm aware that heating/cooling can reduce the range but looks like you can pre-condition the car whilst on charge to mitigate against that. You can also reduce the load in various settings. We also ordered it with the auxillary heat pump system that markedly increases the efficiency of the heater, although my wife would probably rather sit swaddled in multiple layers than use the heating if it is going to save energy!

It sure felt quick, I believe faster than an M3 to 30! Being effectively silent the speedo needs to be watched very, very carefully. What struck me was how quickly the 'one pedal' style of driving became natural, and how smooth and enjoyable it felt to just pootle about. Great cabin, excellent visibility from the driving seat. It feels fresh and modern and pleasingly different.

Curiously the new Nissan Leaf was a bit disappointing. OK to drive (not as quick and bit harder to drive smoothly) but the car is too big for our needs, with an oddly shaped boot and a rather horrible dark conventional cabin. I'm sure it deliberately sets out to be unintimidating and 'normal' but I think less impressive for that somehow. it would however be a better choice if you carry passengers and luggage etc often.

Bruce

Do come back to the forum when you are up and running, and what choices you make for charging etc sounds interesting

Bruce,

We have had a i3 for about 2 years. Not myself & Mrs D, but at work, for running about the airfield and for the admin team to pop into Andover/Salisbury etc.

Let me be clear up front. I don't like it. So my views might well be coloured.

It looks pig-ugly. But, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Access to the back seats is awkward. Well, that's an understatement. Any vehicle that requires the front doors to be opened before you can open the back doors is really just a two-door, two-seat car. But I guess that doesn't sit high on your ticket-list.

Ours came with the optional £6k range extender. This does actually make it moderately practical for medium length journeys. The 2 gallons keeps the battery fully charged and providing you keep topping up the 2 gallons on your journey, you can be reasonably confident of getting "home". Again, it looks like you are confident you can manage without. In the winter, at night, I woudn't plan on much more than 80 miles on a full charge.

We recharge ours overnight whenever possible. It just plugs into the 240V three pin socket in a garage, and the lead is long enough for most domestic situations. A full charge usually takes from about 7:00pm until about 04:00 the next morning. Handbooks says that this sort of recharge is the best for battery life.

A "quick" charge ( we have four metered re-charging outlets on the airfield) takes about an hour and a half. You need to be familiar with cable options for connecting car to charger. Our admin ladies still haven't grasped this aspect !

The car is absolutely quiet. It accelerates like a super-heated lightning (most of us know this from practical experience) and the energy-recovery braking system avoids the need for a drag-shute assisted braking system !

The (front) cabin is light and airy and feels (and is) spacious. The back seats are for the dogs.

You soon get used to the driving, switches and park/drive/reverse systems.

from what you have said, i'm sure both you and you wife will find it meets your expectations.

Cheers

Don

Thanks Don, interesting to hear your thoughts. I had a vague feeling someone on here owned one.

On quick acquaintance with the car I totally agree re the back doors and back seats-but we will almost never use them. I actually think it looks interestingly different and modern, and I'm no fan of BMW generally. I like the fact it is not just another jelly mould. Since the technology is so different I think it should look different too.

We will have a wall charger as the car will be on a driveway not actually in the garage so it needs to be accessible and waterproof. I think this will give us around a 4 hour overnight charge on Economy 7.

The battery size was increased on models from late 2017 so ours may have a bit more range, I think they quoted 90-100 miles on the original and now advise 130. The new model next year will give about 190 miles, perhaps making the range extender option a bit redundant.

Bruce

Hi Bruce, it seems like the battery capacity you will get should be sufficient for most of your wife's intended use. I am sure our car has a quoted 130 mile range. But in the winter, that range isn't achieved, probably due to lights and heater.

The range extender has two principal benefits.

Firstly you can "refuel" ie with petrol, almost anywhere, any time. At present, the availability of re-charging points is limited both geographically and availability ie somebody else is already hooked up.

Secondly, the "time-to-refuel" is reduced to (say) 10 minutes rather than an hour or so.

However, you have looked carefully at these situations and clearly they won't be a problem for you or your wife if you recharge the battery every night at home and limit the daily commute accordingly.

On a separate aspect. Take care of the tyres. We also have a Teslar Model S. A couple of tyres needed replacing earlier this year after a double puncture. Sourcing the right tyres took a few days ! Perhaps the situation is better now, but those BMW i3 tyres sure look tall and narrow and therefore unusual to me !

For what it's worth, I have a Nissan Leaf and I absolutely love it.  I note from the comments above about the air conditioning reducing range, however most up to date EVs use heat pump technology which actually uses very little power.  I regularly do long journeys in it from my home in West Yorkshire, up to about 200 miles.  Charging en-route is straightforward using the fast chargers on the motorway and only takes the time needed to have a coffee, a bite to eat, visit the restroom and walk the dog.  In addition, our local Lidl offers free fast charging so that's a bonus.  I have a charger at my house that I plug into every couple of days or so.  In addition, I have a 13A plug charger that I use when I visit my Mum & Dad or my sister.

Ursus

That sounds really positive.

Our i3 will come with the heat pump system, they now also have LED headlights as standard that use less energy. I guess we will see how much we choose to use it long journeys, we do have another pretty efficient and very comfortable option for that but we may experiment.

Will await delivery, in late Nov/early Dec hopefully

Bruce

We really wanted an i3. It was a good drive but we thought it was poorly packaged. Worst of all, neither of us could find a comfortable driving position. We decided to spring for an i8. Couldn't get comfortable in that either. Those of you who conform to BMW's size and shape parameters are doubtless having a great iTime. I'm still waiting. Just bought Helen a 320d Touring as a stop gap. Not what we intended but necessary for the present.

I've had Hybrids for the past 8 years but not ready for the jump to fully electric just yet. I might go for a plug-in hybrid the next time though. Just out of interest, assuming a 7 or 8 hour charge overnight, how many units of electric does a full charge consume ? With electric at about 13-14p / unit I'm just trying to get a ball park figure. Also assuming that an i3 or Leaf would need a lesser charge than an i8 etc.

Calculating real world costs appears to be as difficult for EVs as conventional fuel, as kWh/mile varies with conditions plus the variety of electricity tariffs, and manufacturer figures are not always accurate.

However it looks like between 3.5-4.5p/mile for the i3 using various sources such as NextGreenCar.com and owner Forums. This works out at maybe 30% of the fuel cost of our old Audi A1 not including VED etc.

The same source makes the Leaf a fraction less per mile, the i8 is not a pure plugin EV so it comes in at 11p/mile. Not exactly a comparable type of vehicle though!

Bruce

I've been a Hybrid owner for 5 years, aside from the headline improved running costs I have found the biggest benefit of driving a hybrid is the peace, quiet and comfort from the drive in general. I get out of the car after a journey feeling less tired or stressed. The car is inherently quiet, but I also think that because the car's raison d'etre is to save energy it has encouraged me to 'take it easy' and drive more gently.

I will certainly be looking for another hybrid in the future, but given that my car is the family, 'do everything work horse' I cannot see me driving a purely electric car just yet.  At the moment I am very happy with my current motor, but as the charging network improves and as electric car development continues I can see many people, including me being drawn to the charms of driving electric.

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Calculating real world costs appears to be as difficult for EVs as conventional fuel, as kWh/mile varies with conditions plus the variety of electricity tariffs, and manufacturer figures are not always accurate.

However it looks like between 3.5-4.5p/mile for the i3 using various sources such as NextGreenCar.com and owner Forums. This works out at maybe 30% of the fuel cost of our old Audi A1 not including VED etc.

The same source makes the Leaf a fraction less per mile, the i8 is not a pure plugin EV so it comes in at 11p/mile. Not exactly a comparable type of vehicle though!

Bruce

Bruce

The most important thing isn’t the running cost, but the cost of ownership of pertol vs electric, over a period of say 5 years. Taking in account purchase price, fuel costs, service costs, replacement parts cost (batteries, tyres, exhausts etc.), insurance costs, tax costs and how much the car will be worth after 5 years.

fatcat posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Calculating real world costs appears to be as difficult for EVs as conventional fuel, as kWh/mile varies with conditions plus the variety of electricity tariffs, and manufacturer figures are not always accurate.

However it looks like between 3.5-4.5p/mile for the i3 using various sources such as NextGreenCar.com and owner Forums. This works out at maybe 30% of the fuel cost of our old Audi A1 not including VED etc.

The same source makes the Leaf a fraction less per mile, the i8 is not a pure plugin EV so it comes in at 11p/mile. Not exactly a comparable type of vehicle though!

Bruce

Bruce

The most important thing isn’t the running cost, but the cost of ownership of pertol vs electric, over a period of say 5 years. Taking in account purchase price, fuel costs, service costs, replacement parts cost (batteries, tyres, exhausts etc.), insurance costs, tax costs and how much the car will be worth after 5 years.

Totally agree. We have not bought it to save money specifically, we realise 'total life cost' is a whole lot more complex but Redmires asked how much it would cost to charge.

I think it is more for us about a change of driving philosophy, an interest in new technology and a realisation that more of our electricity is now generated in a greener way. Irealise that is also not without controversies!

Bruce

Provided we have enough green electricity and the distribution system to feed all these new loads it seems to me to be the way to go.

I hope this thread can be sustained as it is quite hard to find good sources for drivers' practical and longer term experiences of these new vehicle technologies.  It would be really helpful if those describing their experiences included information about the models they are driving. I have considered exchanging my diesel Volvo V60 bought in 2015 for a Toyota hybrid (Auris estate) but - apart from the significant financial loss involved - couldn't see a significant environmental or personal advantage given that locally, in Milton Keynes, most driving would seem to be on the petrol engine with minor use of the electric motor. It's also not clear to me that the plug-in hybrids offer a great deal more in terms of electric range and speed. For my purposes, it therefore seems more realistic to aim for an all electric car, but maybe wait until greater flexibility is available.

Clive

Range does still appear to be an issue with most electric cars.  Most of my journeys in the beemer estate are 100 miles or more.  As such, I'm thinking that an all-electric vehicle, even with a range extender, is probably not the best option right now.  However, for someone like my Mother, who uses her car daily but probably only travels a maximum of 30 miles in any one day, an electric car would be absolutely ideal, and a damn sight better than her current Mini. A lady in the village has got an i3 and I know my Mother has been admiring it, so I think I know what her next car will be..

Something with a range of 100 miles would do us fine for 50-70% of our regular usage, based on time, not mileage. I do round trips of 100s of miles in my car regularly but all the local journeys could easily be accomplished electrically. Plenty of candidates but alas, no decent cars in our price range yet. We really wanted an i3. We thought a test drive would be a formality. 

It’s difficult to break the habit of owning a car that will do the short and long trips. It might be more economical to have an electric for the majority of trips and just hire a car for that long vacation or weekend trip further away. But I am guilty of not quite being ready to sever the tie with petroleum or diesel....yet.

BMW I3 - is not full electric, as BMW got into trouble in Germany, the vehicle also house an engine albeit range extender.

I recall a someone saying you have to look a the true life cycle and costs, when you do that the electric car utopia does not fair well (i.e. energy has to come from somewhere, logistics, battery materials, disposal of batteries, infrastructure, etc..) .

I did feel for a while hybrid was the way forward, but as per the I3 comment, most Cities will look to ban them, as you cannot 100% say it won't emit. 

I do feel some form of electrifying engines coupled with UBER style ride sharing is the City solution.

In the UK the i3 is sold as a pure EV or with a range extender. While we were willing to accept the hybrid power model of the i8 in return for the style and performance, we were looking a the pure EV i3.  Which drove very well. 

I’d love to have an electric car, but as we have a little caravan pretty well all of them are ruled out. 

Obsydian posted:

BMW I3 - is not full electric, as BMW got into trouble in Germany, the vehicle also house an engine albeit range extender.

I recall a someone saying you have to look a the true life cycle and costs, when you do that the electric car utopia does not fair well (i.e. energy has to come from somewhere, logistics, battery materials, disposal of batteries, infrastructure, etc..) .

I did feel for a while hybrid was the way forward, but as per the I3 comment, most Cities will look to ban them, as you cannot 100% say it won't emit. 

I do feel some form of electrifying engines coupled with UBER style ride sharing is the City solution.

The BMW i3 comes with an optional range extender. You can get the car without this range extender and it's a pure EV - no petrol, no diesel.

I'm with you on the need to consider the "whole-life-financial-cost" of vehicle ownership together with the "whole-life-environmental-cost". But until China stops burning coal to generate electricity, I for one am not taking part in this "save-the-environment" malarkey ! A good diesel-driven Mercedes does it for me at 70 mpg and you know what ? many families don't really need, or indeed can't afford two cars - in which case, forget the limited range small EVs !

I see the biggest brake on pure EVs (as costs fall and range rises) will be having somewhere at home to charge. Fine if you have your own driveway or garage. Not fine if your car is out on the street. Some employers may add charging stations to workplace parking but that is clearly not going to be an option for the many.

I think we will see more EVs used as buses etc, and would also like to see them creeping into local delivery vehicles etc. Bring back the milk float!

Don, the contrary argument is that if the vast majority of your journeys are within the range of a good EV (and that is getting to be 200miles for many) then you just hire the bigger car for the holidays and exceptional trips.

Bruce