How should i place my Naim gear in my new Fraim?

I would have the two sources on top underneath the NDX I would put the 252 and then 250 and underneath the LP12 I would have the Lingo 4 and PS Audio on the same shelf and the Supercap beneath that.

The only considerations I have found that are beneficial for SQ are to position the items for optimum cable dressing... and try and put some space between amps / powersupplies and NAC and source components... such as using extended height shelves if not using two stacks. I put my 552 on the top shelf with extended height away from the rest of my kit... it works for me.

The basic principle with two stacks is to have unpowered items on the left and those with transformers on the right. It seems you have seven items to be accommodated but only six shelves, so something is not going to fit. Perhaps you should order two more shelves. Then you could have the LP12 on the left, with the 252 below, then a gap, then the Lingo. The other four boxes could then go on the right. 

I’m assuming that either your dealer will set up the Fraim, or you already know exactly how to do it. 

I would absolutely concur with Simon on having the pre-amp on the top shelf with nothing above it. But it does seem like you have some constraints because of the number of shelves.

 Cheers 

I don’t have fraim, but my buddy dealer did tell me once to have the front feet of the boxes just about over the two front cups and balls. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the help!

i will be setting up the fraim myself, the Fraim didnt come with the rest of the gear, and the dealer isnt nearby.

The Lingo 4 and the PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter will be on the same shelf.

hungryhalibut posted:

The basic principle with two stacks is to have unpowered items on the left and those with transformers on the right. It seems you have seven items to be accommodated but only six shelves, so something is not going to fit. Perhaps you should order two more shelves. Then you could have the LP12 on the left, with the 252 below, then a gap, then the Lingo. The other four boxes could then go on the right. 

I’m assuming that either your dealer will set up the Fraim, or you already know exactly how to do it. 

I will set up the Fraim myself

DPh posted:

Thanks for the help!

i will be setting up the fraim myself, the Fraim didnt come with the rest of the gear, and the dealer isnt nearby.

The Lingo 4 and the PS Audio NuWave Phono Converter will be on the same shelf.

Ah, the Lingo 4 is really small. I hadn’t realised. 

DPh posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

The basic principle with two stacks is to have unpowered items on the left and those with transformers on the right. It seems you have seven items to be accommodated but only six shelves, so something is not going to fit. Perhaps you should order two more shelves. Then you could have the LP12 on the left, with the 252 below, then a gap, then the Lingo. The other four boxes could then go on the right. 

I’m assuming that either your dealer will set up the Fraim, or you already know exactly how to do it. 

I will set up the Fraim myself

Tip from Andy at Signals (which was originally from Jason at Naim) is to press the ball in the cup and twist until it makes a nasty screech to bed the ball in.

That’s a new one, which I shall try when the system next needs rebuilding. The key things I’ve found are getting the spikes in the centre of the cups, getting the glass the right way up (one way will ring and the other will doink when you rap it with your knuckles while it’s sitting on the balls) and aligning the front of the boxes with the front of the glass. The other, probably obvious, thing is to build one layer at a time and wire the boxes as you go. Then you can put your knee against the front while you shove the Powerline into its socket. 

Wow honestly you lot are too much if you can detect a difference in sound between any configuration then you are imagining things apart of course from getting the SC away from the pre. 

If you believe one side of sheet of glass can sound better than another then good luck to you. 

My main consideration is making sure all cables are not stretched the rest is aesthetics. 

It’s easy to mock. I’m simply passing on advice that I have had from others, which may in turn be useful to the OP. It’s up to individuals how much effort they spend in setting up their system. The Fraim is fiddly to set up but the ultimate outcome depends on how well it’s done. Why not try to be positive rather than pissing on others when they try to be helpful?

Got to agree BB. Obsessional nonsense. Although I once told a sheet of Fraim glass to do its best before replacing and I'm convinced it sounded better so try not to swear at your HiFi.

hungryhalibut posted:

It’s easy to mock. I’m simply passing on advice that I have had from others, which may in turn be useful to the OP. It’s up to individuals how much effort they spend in setting up their system. The Fraim is fiddly to set up but the ultimate outcome depends on how well it’s done. Why not try to be positive rather than pissing on others when they try to be helpful?

Totally agree Nigel... I thought you suggestion on Fraim setup was spot on... setting Fraim up correctly can make the world of difference, especially for sensitive components like CDX2 and 552 for example... some of the comments you read on the forum about specific user experiences in terms of SQ suggest to me perhaps sometimes not enough care is put into setup... I guess that comes with experience..

The purpose of the Fraim is to isolate or at least control the vibration transmitted to the boxes.  Naim consider this important hence the floating boards and lumps of brass in their higher end kit.

As the glass vibrates differently depending on the side and the equipment sits on the glass it seems entirely reasonable to me that the effectiveness of the isolation and control will be different depending on which way the glass is placed.

I've not done the comparison but heeded advice of people who have, it's in the Naim FAQ's so provenance is good.

I was amazed at the difference the Fraim made over my previous (Stands Unique) rack.  People who say that it can be as much as a black box upgrade are not kidding.  I found the Fraim made more of a difference that the dedicated radial circuit that I had installed after the Fraim.

Just to clarify I do have 3x4 stacks of Fraim  and did of course make sure it was tightened correctly and level when set-up. However I could hear no difference between sides of glass or how far front or back the equipment is placed as long as the cables are free of obstruction.

I prefer to do the comparisons my self rather than rely on act of faith and it is wrong  to  assume that anybody who cannot hear a difference is in some sense inexperienced.

What kind of tools is needed for assemley the Fraim?

The base units come with a spanner and small metal rod, that’s all you need.

See the FAQ:

How to Build the Naim Fraim

Everything you need is included in the base box (Tommy bar and spanner) with the exception of a good spirit level (forget the silly little things - go for a proper level) and possibly a good sharp carpet knife.  

Oh and do Richards top tip leave the tools under the Fraim base, not badged up in the boxes. You will need to retighten things at some point. Best to keep with the Fraim.

Not forgetting the Naim approved ball polisher. Shiny balls are happy balls. I must confess that I’ve not tried listening to music with the glass in the various orientations. All I do is rap it with my knuckle when the glass is in place and go with whichever side rings best, then place the box on top. It’s easier to do with some pieces than others though - one of mine sounds pretty similar both ways up while others are really ringy one way and very dull the other. 

I have 17 glass shelves. theoretically, to thoroughly test the 'one side sounds better' then I will need to test 2^17 combinations, i.e. 131,072!!!

when Andy @ Signals re-set my fraims, he seemed to find it quite easy to determine which side resonated better -- had a deeper 'ding' -- and I just accepted that known 'wisdom' -- and the system doesn't sound bad for that. 

I take the view that if it doesn't make any difference, then such tuning cannot therefore make the sound bad. But if there is a chance that there is something in this, then I benefit anyhow. So, win either way...

enjoy/ken

ken c posted:

I have 17 glass shelves. theoretically, to thoroughly test the 'one side sounds better' then I will need to test 2^17 combinations, i.e. 131,072!!!

when Andy @ Signals re-set my fraims, he seemed to find it quite easy to determine which side resonated better -- had a deeper 'ding' -- and I just accepted that known 'wisdom' -- and the system doesn't sound bad for that. 

I take the view that if it doesn't make any difference, then such tuning cannot therefore make the sound bad. But if there is a chance that there is something in this, then I benefit anyhow. So, win either way...

enjoy/ken

Yep that’s pretty much how Andy set my Fraim with the same sentiments.......Naim advise this and that, no harm in trying. Quite frankly having new kit put on the Fraim I have no idea if the tweeks worked. Cos it just sounded fab anyway.

ken c posted:

I have 17 glass shelves. theoretically, to thoroughly test the 'one side sounds better' then I will need to test 2^17 combinations, i.e. 131,072!!!

when Andy @ Signals re-set my fraims, he seemed to find it quite easy to determine which side resonated better -- had a deeper 'ding' -- and I just accepted that known 'wisdom' -- and the system doesn't sound bad for that. 

I take the view that if it doesn't make any difference, then such tuning cannot therefore make the sound bad. But if there is a chance that there is something in this, then I benefit anyhow. So, win either way...

enjoy/ken

What side should the deep bing be at? the side Where the component is placed?

It’s not really about sides as such. One way up, the glass will ring. The other way up, it won’t. It makes more of a dull boink. You want it the way up that makes it ring.