Shelving Unit

hungryhalibut posted:

I’d ask your dealer to lend you a proper stand. Assemble it on the floor in front of the unit, put all the equipment on it, and see what difference you hear. Then you can decide. I suspect the answer is to have the equipment on proper stands on the floor, have the records in a tall unit on the left, and have the CDs and books on wall shelves. That can look good and will very likely sound considerably better. 

I cant say I’ve heard of Veebee, but it’s always good to see Johnny Marr’s autobiography. 

I’d never of heard of Johnny Marr (thought he might be a relative of Andrew!). Google soon revealed why HH approves. Can nothing protect this forum from invasion by The Smiths?!

If you have room get that LP12 on a wall shelf you won’t regret it. 

The Smiths have been extinct for over 30 years, and Johnny Marr has since become one of Britain’s best guitarists. He’s played with loads of bands both as a full member or a session player, and he has released some excellent solo albums. Unlike Morrissey, who has become a grade A pillock, Marr is held in enormous regard. If you like guitar music he is well worth checking out. 

Bob the Builder posted:

If you have room get that LP12 on a wall shelf you won’t regret it. 

On balance, that is the most critical thing. Something like the Tiger Paw Vulkan would be perfect, so long as they are proper heavy breeze blocks rather than thermalites. BtB will be far more knowledgeable on this but I’ve always been advised that thermalites won’t take much weight and for an LP12 you need to be confident that it’s not going to go crashing to the floor. After that, I’d get the Naim boxes on Fraim glass and balls. 

You can easily get high density Thermolite blocks that are designed to take a compressive load. When we had a steel beam put in to enable us to take away a load-bearing wall downstairs, the structural engineer required us to build high strength Thermolite padstones into the wall at each end because they would take the point load and it was uncertain whether what the walls were made of (bricks and mortar) would do.

best

David

Timmo1341 posted:

I’d never of heard of Johnny Marr (thought he might be a relative of Andrew!). Google soon revealed why HH approves. Can nothing protect this forum from invasion by The Smiths?!

Never heard of Johnny Marr?? How do you get through life without ever encountering the Smiths?!

What Difference Does it Make is one of my go to tunes to test a new component in the system. Usually followed by How Soon is Now.

As already noted, he has had a stellar career since The Smiths and has managed not to turn into a bigoted old man, unlike Morrissy!

Quick update, I'm definitely going to get the LP12 on a shelf. I've spoken to a friend who's a joiner, we'll cut out the back panel and insert a new 3mm thick box so it goes all the way to the wall and looks nice and neat. Then I can attach the shelf. The breeze blocks are holding up some serious shelving in the garage on the other side of this wall so I'm not worried about their ability to cope with the weight of the TT.

Now I just need to choose the shelf! Time to do some research...

I think it looks great. I love to see albums and CDs in a living room. Invites you to browse... Not for the ‘streamers’ perhaps.

My two thoughts are that you have a large room with space, and that your design contains more library than system. So, if it were me, I would try a good rack in your room and fill the new empty spaces with more music, photos or whatever.

On the other hand it still looks great if you leave it alone. Good advice on the LP12 above though.

Stu

Get you grandad! While I have no LPs and no horrid CDs cluttering up the place, I do have books. 

lambretta posted:

Quick update, I'm definitely going to get the LP12 on a shelf.

The cabinet looks very nice.

You’re considering putting the LP12 on a shelf that’s attached to high mass structure. (wallshelf on a breezeblock wall).

Your LP12 is already on a shelf that’s attached to a high mass structure. The two rows of LP’s is a high mass structure and the shelf the LP12 sits on is attached to this.

The fact you think it sounds great indicates there is no major problem, any improvement is likely to be more of a tweek, which you could probably obtain by upgrading the tonearm cable or interconnert or snaic or speaker cable or mains cable or fuse in the plugs, etc.

The first thing I’d do is remove all the records, books and CDs to reduce the mass, and see if the sound quality deteriates.

hungryhalibut posted:

Get you grandad! While I have no LPs and no horrid CDs cluttering up the place, I do have books. 

I found that those nice large stolens Lidl sell, do a far better job of damping a Naim case than a pile of books. Only problem is, I couldn’t resist eating it.

hungryhalibut posted:

Get you grandad! While I have no LPs and no horrid CDs cluttering up the place,I do have books. 

Ok, I suppose we have to concede you have at least three things that technically speaking, are books......

...........but then, using your own words "...cluttering up the place...." it only takes three books

fatcat posted:

lambretta posted:

Quick update, I'm definitely going to get the LP12 on a shelf.

The cabinet looks very nice.

You’re considering putting the LP12 on a shelf that’s attached to high mass structure. (wallshelf on a breezeblock wall).

Your LP12 is already on a shelf that’s attached to a high mass structure. The two rows of LP’s is a high mass structure and the shelf the LP12 sits on is attached to this

The first thing I’d do is remove all the records, books and CDs to reduce the mass, and see if the sound quality deteriates.

 

That's a good idea! Decent excuse to reorganise everything as well ????

fatcat posted:

You’re considering putting the LP12 on a shelf that’s attached to high mass structure. (wallshelf on a breezeblock wall).

Your LP12 is already on a shelf that’s attached to a high mass structure. The two rows of LP’s is a high mass structure and the shelf the LP12 sits on is attached to this.

 

 

Couple of misconceptions in this post:

1) Good LP12 wall shelves are very rigid and light in mass, so as to get any vibration within the range that the suspension is effective. They also provide a measure of decoupling from the wall, depending on attachment method.

2) You are looking for a solid, inert wall, not necessarily high mass (though those go hand in hand in this case. ). As such, even a good, robust MDF shelving unit will not be the same as a solid wall in this aspect.

3) The shelf it's currently on is much larger than the low-mass one you'd find on something like the Vulkan; if I'm getting its shape right, it will also not behave as rigidly.

I sincerely doubt that you will not see significant improvement with a proper wall shelf assembly for the LP12.

lambretta posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

I’d never of heard of Johnny Marr (thought he might be a relative of Andrew!). Google soon revealed why HH approves. Can nothing protect this forum from invasion by The Smiths?!

Never heard of Johnny Marr?? How do you get through life without ever encountering the Smiths?!

What Difference Does it Make is one of my go to tunes to test a new component in the system. Usually followed by How Soon is Now.

As already noted, he has had a stellar career since The Smiths and has managed not to turn into a bigoted old man, unlike Morrissy!

 

The grumpy bigoted old man can still crack a cheeky smile.

lambretta posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

I’d never of heard of Johnny Marr (thought he might be a relative of Andrew!). Google soon revealed why HH approves. Can nothing protect this forum from invasion by The Smiths?!

Never heard of Johnny Marr?? How do you get through life without ever encountering the Smiths?!

What Difference Does it Make is one of my go to tunes to test a new component in the system. Usually followed by How Soon is Now.

As already noted, he has had a stellar career since The Smiths and has managed not to turn into a bigoted old man, unlike Morrissy!

 

1. Easy - tried them, didn’t like them.

2. Difficult to comment, not knowing what your system consists of.

3. So stellar I’ve never heard of him. Amazon reviews compare him with Noel Gallagher, so I       don’t think I’ll be rushing to purchase any of his music. Each to their own I guess.

I never expect anyone to like the music or bands that float my boat. I expect reciprocity. I do find it slightly arrogant when, for example, Smith’s devotees expect everyone else to concur or imply they are somehow lacking in musical taste. Strange how this seems to extend to hi-fi equipment and political choices. How sad there should be so much intolerance today.

ricsimas posted:

fatcat posted:

You’re considering putting the LP12 on a shelf that’s attached to high mass structure. (wallshelf on a breezeblock wall).

Your LP12 is already on a shelf that’s attached to a high mass structure. The two rows of LP’s is a high mass structure and the shelf the LP12 sits on is attached to this.

 

 

Couple of misconceptions in this post:

1) Good LP12 wall shelves are very rigid and light in mass, so as to get any vibration within the range that the suspension is effective. They also provide a measure of decoupling from the wall, depending on attachment method.

2) You are looking for a solid, inert wall, not necessarily high mass (though those go hand in hand in this case. ). As such, even a good, robust MDF shelving unit will not be the same as a solid wall in this aspect.

3) The shelf it's currently on is much larger than the low-mass one you'd find on something like the Vulkan; if I'm getting its shape right, it will also not behave as rigidly.

I sincerely doubt that you will not see significant improvement with a proper wall shelf assembly for the LP12.

The shelf the LP12 sits on looks very rigid to me. If it runs the full width of the unit, the ends are trapped making it far more rigid than if where sat on cones. If the shelf is attached to the vertical pieces of wood either side of the LP12, it is effectively being help up.

With regards the Vulcan being lightweight, the wooden shelf isn’t that light, a piece of arolam would be much lighter. Plus if lightness is the reason it sounds OK, why do people go to the expense of putting a piece of heavy glass on top of the wooden shelf.

There’s no one way of achieving excellent sound quality, if there was there would only be one type of turntable, one type of amp, one type of speaker cable and one type of speaker. For all we know Lamberetta might of accidently stumbled on the ultimate hifi cabinet/support.

Timmo1341 posted:

lambretta posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

I’d never of heard of Johnny Marr (thought he might be a relative of Andrew!). Google soon revealed why HH approves. Can nothing protect this forum from invasion by The Smiths?!

Never heard of Johnny Marr?? How do you get through life without ever encountering the Smiths?!

What Difference Does it Make is one of my go to tunes to test a new component in the system. Usually followed by How Soon is Now.

As already noted, he has had a stellar career since The Smiths and has managed not to turn into a bigoted old man, unlike Morrissy!

 

1. Easy - tried them, didn’t like them.

2. Difficult to comment, not knowing what your system consists of.

3. So stellar I’ve never heard of him. Amazon reviews compare him with Noel Gallagher, so I       don’t think I’ll be rushing to purchase any of his music. Each to their own I guess.

I never expect anyone to like the music or bands that float my boat. I expect reciprocity. I do find it slightly arrogant when, for example, Smith’s devotees expect everyone else to concur or imply they are somehow lacking in musical taste. Strange how this seems to extend to hi-fi equipment and political choices. How sad there should be so much intolerance today.

Lighten up. It’s not Smiths devotees’ problem that others are so blind that they cannot see. Or know how to use apostrophes. 

Grammar police in action again HH? Check your own posts, most of us can’t be arsed with such cheap point scoring.

Gentleman - haven't we rather drifting away from the questions posed by the OP?

fatcat posted:

The shelf the LP12 sits on looks very rigid to me. If it runs the full width of the unit, the ends are trapped making it far more rigid than if where sat on cones. If the shelf is attached to the vertical pieces of wood either side of the LP12, it is effectively being help up.

 

With regards the Vulcan being lightweight, the wooden shelf isn’t that light, a piece of arolam would be much lighter. Plus if lightness is the reason it sounds OK, why do people go to the expense of putting a piece of heavy glass on top of the wooden shelf.

Regarding the rigidity, I don't think it's great that the shelf is supported outside the feet of the LP12 - I would expect some deflection with this design. On the original Audiotech, with the original LP12 feet, it goes on a straight line onto the spikes in essence. This means the shelf doesn't deflect. With the current setup I wouldn't expect it to behave the same.

The choice of material for the Vulkan shelf at those dimensions is actually quite light and rigid at a reasonable cost. You could probably reduce the weight, but can you do it at the same cost while keeping it rigid?

Lastly, re: glass, people have done all sorts of things to LP12s that don't necessarily make that much sense: glass, granite, sorbothane feet, clamps... Whatever floats their boat, but there is a reason the recommendation is for light and rigid. ;-)

Timmo1341 posted:

1. Easy - tried them, didn’t like them.

2. Difficult to comment, not knowing what your system consists of.

3. So stellar I’ve never heard of him. Amazon reviews compare him with Noel Gallagher, so I       don’t think I’ll be rushing to purchase any of his music. Each to their own I guess.

I never expect anyone to like the music or bands that float my boat. I expect reciprocity. I do find it slightly arrogant when, for example, Smith’s devotees expect everyone else to concur or imply they are somehow lacking in musical taste. Strange how this seems to extend to hi-fi equipment and political choices. How sad there should be so much intolerance today.

Please don't take offence, I don't intend it that way - was . a bit of light hearted banter. I'm not even a massive fan of The Smiths, I just really like a few specific songs but I read books on music and musicians all the time, even if I don't always like the songs they produce.

I've spoken to Quadraspire and they're happy to let me buy the Q Plus and return them if I don't want them after installing them in my system. 

That said, I am leaning towards the Vulcan, I think it will look better than having the TT raised up on feet anyway, and they've agreed to do me one powder coated in white...

lambretta posted:

I've spoken to Quadraspire and they're happy to let me buy the Q Plus and return them if I don't want them after installing them in my system. 

 

Well worth trying. You could be pleasantly surprised.

Timmo1341 posted:

Grammar police in action again HH? Check your own posts, most of us can’t be arsed with such cheap point scoring.

I don’t bother commenting most of the time, but it is quite jarring to read posts with bad grammar so I empathise when others do raise it.  The apostrophe is a particular example - surprisingly in most cases as the rules are actually very simple - but I won’t continue as that is not the subject of this thread.