i have a couple of DSD files, slightly more anagolue in the sound - certainly Alan Parsons - Turn of a Friendly Card is very good on DSD there is certainly lot's of data for the system to play

as most DSD is for classical and jazz and thats not what I tend to lisen too, I would get a couple of albums and try the format

I have never really bothered as I am not sure if I can also tag it the way I like it (with MP3). But of course of it would sound better I would definitely consider, while DSD also tends to be significantly more expensive. Any opinions for people who have tested / experimented more ?

IME with proviso’s DSD sounds better,   more ‘analogue’ as mentioned above & with a lighter more detailed touch.  It also seems to suit some genre over others.   Simple small assemble acoustic such as folk is most suited,  choral & jazz provided its not a big stage/multi-mic.   Rock & pop are not so well suited. Recording in DSD (or other bit-stream) is important as is the post recording processing,   & it’s the care & expertise in the studio part of the recording process that probably makes specialist DSD albums that bit better than those in PCM.     Lots to read on the internet,  most DSD specialist vendors have free samplers to try,  whats to lose ? give it a go & decide yourself.

i have 3 dsd only :  jeff beck( blow by blow),  george duke ( from 1974),  and Patricia Barber ( from 1994 album).

I am impressed by any of them.  The jeff beck sounds nearly the same as its 24/96 format.

The 2 others sound clean, soft, but a bit dull.

For French Rooster: do you mean "not impressed"?

I mean that the sound is not very dynamic, more clean and soft, nice but without enough life.

But my experience is only with 3.4 albums, so minimal too.

For the music i am listening, the dsd come from analog stuff in majority ( 70’s, 80´s) and i prefer these albums on lps.   For modern music, the dsd albums concern very often a music that i don’t like.      I am buying essentially on qobuz, highrezaudio, bandcamp or naim label, where dsd don’t exist too.

IMO, playing DSD files on PCM1704 based DACs (nDAC, NDS, ND555) or any Naim DACs doesn’t make much sense.

The DSD files are converted to PCM which requires quite an amount of processing (DoP), which means noise.

Well recorded 24/192 PCM files or even 24/352,8 PCM files are worth a try.

2L Records produces astonishingly well recorded albums!

French Rooster posted:

i have 3 dsd only :  jeff beck( blow by blow),  george duke ( from 1974),  and Patricia Barber ( from 1994 album).

I am impressed by any of them.  The jeff beck sounds nearly the same as its 24/96 format.

The 2 others sound clean, soft, but a bit dull.

Bonjour M. Coq,   I suspect you are not so happy with those DSD albums because of how they were originally recorded, Jeff Beck & George Duke are both analogue masters because of the recording dates.     To get the best from DSD it's better they are recorded in DSD,  this however can be difficult as post recording processing & mixing is difficult.    Recordings in DSD are better suited to simple & small ensemble studio set ups with minimal microphone/tracks & the recording can be balanced, mixed & recorded 'live' in the studio.  If the music needs more mic's & tracks the specialist DSD producers invariably record in DXD.  This is a high sampling rate 352.8/24 PCM format.  Processing & mixing is easier & it converts well to DSD.

I suggest you go to www  NativeDSD & get a copy of their free (zero €) DSD sampler download,  it contains a selection of classic, rock & jazz music,  some recorded in DSD, some not.  The download has some descriptive tracks telling you what to listen to.  Also while you are on the NativeDSD website,  have a read on some of the technical pages.    As you are a HighResAudio user,  keep a look out for DSD albums from them.  

Thanks Mike, i once went on this site, researched some music but found nothing that can interest me.   I am curious what highrezaudio will show on dsd.  On 2l , the same.

The only dsd from digital is my 1994 album of Patricia Barber.   I prefer the 16/44 version.  But as you said, it’s non native too.

As said Tomser, the naim dacs are also perhaps not the best to decode dsd.   I stay mind open, so we will see in the future.

French Rooster posted:

 

As said Tomser, the naim dacs are also perhaps not the best to decode dsd.   I stay mind open, so we will see in the future.

Hi F.R.,

Unfortunately, Naim DACs aren't able to play DSD encoded music, at all.
The PCM1704 based DACs are PCM only, and therefore won't understand DSD encoded music without a transcoding process.

DSD is an interesting encoding format in theory, but has its drawbacks (essentially mastering issues/limits). In fact, "pure DSD" is quite rare. The so called DSD recordings are often recorded in DXD (which is PCM), as Mike said.

I mostly listen to classical music, but I'm sure you may find quite well recorded Jazz encoded in 24/192 on Qobuz, HDtracks, etc.

As far as Jazz is concerned I suggest you to listen to Polarity from 2L Records. You can download it in 24/192 and even in 24/352,8. It's a great album, amazingly well recorded. Give it a try 

DSD Playback Now Available for Naim Audio DACs

dave4jazz posted:

December 2015

Naim Audio

DSD Playback Now Available for Naim Audio DACs

 

DSD playback through DoP...
Which is not native DSD playback. It's DSD transcoded to PCM.

TomSer posted:

French Rooster posted:

 

As said Tomser, the naim dacs are also perhaps not the best to decode dsd.   I stay mind open, so we will see in the future.

Hi F.R.,

Unfortunately, Naim DACs aren't able to play DSD encoded music, at all.
The PCM1704 based DACs are PCM only, and therefore won't understand DSD encoded music without a transcoding process.

DSD is an interesting encoding format in theory, but has its drawbacks (essentially mastering issues/limits). In fact, "pure DSD" is quite rare. The so called DSD recordings are often recorded in DXD (which is PCM), as Mike said.

I mostly listen to classical music, but I'm sure you may find quite well recorded Jazz encoded in 24/192 on Qobuz, HDtracks, etc.

As far as Jazz is concerned I suggest you to listen to Polarity from 2L Records. You can download it in 24/192 and even in 24/352,8. It's a great album, amazingly well recorded. Give it a try 

Thanks Tomser, i will have a listen to this album.

TomSer posted:

dave4jazz posted:

December 2015

Naim Audio

DSD Playback Now Available for Naim Audio DACs

 

DSD playback through DoP...
Which is not native DSD playback. It's DSD transcoded to PCM.

I'm no expert but, in your original post, maybe you met to say "Naim DACs aren't able to play DSD encoded music natively" not "Unfortunately, Naim DACs aren't able to play DSD encoded music, at all."

Dave

French Rooster posted:

i have 3 dsd only :  jeff beck( blow by blow),  george duke ( from 1974),  and Patricia Barber ( from 1994 album).

I am impressed by any of them.  The jeff beck sounds nearly the same as its 24/96 format.

The 2 others sound clean, soft, but a bit dull.

Interesting... DSD has some interesting benefits in analogue signal reconstruction, but it is in the area of dynamics it is the most challenged..probably why DSD and rock don’t make great bed fellows.

Yes Simon, it is my impression, but i have not enough experience with dsd.  I stay curious and will try other albums if i find something interesting to listen.

 There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding in some previous posts about DSD & DoP:    DoP = DSD over PCM.    DoP is simply a means of carrying DSD data over PCM. It takes a DSD stream & packs it into a PCM stream.  The DoP stream can then be transmitted through existing 24/192-capable interfaces to a DoP-compatible DAC which reassembles the original DSD data stream COMPLETELY UNCHANGED. There is no conversion or transcoding,  DSD over DoP is played as un-modified DSD. 

French Rooster posted:

Thanks Mike, i once went on this site, researched some music but found nothing that can interest me.   I am curious what highrezaudio will show on dsd.  On 2l , the same.

Hi again,  my post yesterday suggested you go to www  NativeDSD & get a copy of their free DSD sampler download,  I meant this as a suggestion to get a sampler with a selection of well known & well recorded classical, rock, folk & jazz tracks that will enable you to experience DSD in its best presented form.   Its free,  it'll cost you nothing but your time,  you will then be able to hear DSD as its supposed to sound,  then you can make an informed decision - whats to lose ???

Mike-B posted:

 There seems to be a bit of misunderstanding in some previous posts about DSD & DoP:    DoP = DSD over PCM.    DoP is simply a means of carrying DSD data over PCM. It takes a DSD stream & packs it into a PCM stream.  The DoP stream can then be transmitted through existing 24/192-capable interfaces to a DoP-compatible DAC which reassembles the original DSD data stream COMPLETELY UNCHANGED. There is no conversion or transcoding,  DSD over DoP is played as un-modified DSD. 

Hi Mike,

You're right, this is more about encapsulating the DSD stream then "transcoding" it.
But, if I may,  the dCS information you referring to is a bit light on the subject.

I found this interesting reading about the DoP open standard.
It is quite detailed on how things are actually done.
https://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard#.W8mUIWgzbup

It might, partially, explain the lack of dynamics Simon and French Rooster noticed.
It would be interesting to check if the hearing experience is the same on a DSD dedicated DAC.

I'm quite curious about the direction Naim will follow regarding DACs. 
A Statement level source will probably have the ability to decode everything natively.
FPGA based DAC, like Chord's? 
Rob Watts working as a consultant for Naim? That would be rather nice 

Hi F.R.,

If you google "NativeDSD sampler" the first link is the page Mike is referring to. Quite an eclectic choice of DSD samples.

TomSer posted:

Hi Mike,       You're right, this is more about encapsulating the DSD stream then "transcoding" it.
But, if I may,  the dCS information you referring to is a bit light on the subject.

Yes it is lightweight,  as I intended,  I copied/edited that dCS script to keep it short, simple & easier to understand.   The DSD-Guide.com link you posted is a lot more detailed,  but its at a level that is not understood by all.

I have quite lot of DSD all 64 or 128 mostly classical or jazz modern recordings from hd tracks rather than remasters, on average I prefer them where I have the original red book version. I'm not a fan of remasters/ upsamples/ clean-ups or what ever they may be marketed as where all that I get is louder or harsher, particularly with rock, in that case a record from the 70s with a few clicks is preferable. Lets not get bogged down in stats its's how it sounds.