Ethernet Cables

I heard some Audioquest cable (can't remember which one but it was £1k+) in the Linn room at the North West Hifi show being compared to some other cable.  My missus who had no idea of what had just been done said that sounds exactly the same.

I did some blind testing (she only knew the cable number) of Naim Powerline Lites and several other mains cables including a shielded one from MCRU with her to see what she thought. Cable were  I tried fooling her by swapping back to a previous cable but it didn't work as she exclaimed that "You've just ruined it, put it back!".  So cable number 4 went back as this was by far the best.  Cable 4 was the Powerline Lite. 

Oddly enough cable 2 was a Delta-Crompton lead with a Belling-Lee IEC connector. This was better then the standard Naim mains cable but poles apart from the Powerline Lite.

Take your wife to any demos (if you have one and she can be persuaded).   

Timmo1341 posted:

Can anyone explain why I was unable to detect anything other than the smallest (and not necessarily better) difference between these expensive connectors and my bog standard £5 Maplin leads? I’ve recently had my hearing tested, and that came out better than expected!

Because you heard the differences there were, not what you'd been led to expect.

With everything else "right" an ethernet cable should sound like an ethernet cable, should sound like an ethernet cable..... I think ("digital") cables make a (bigger) difference when something is awry such as rf interference being injected that reaches the analogue stages of the kit and they have a different effect to each other on that interference.

Over the last 4 years I've changed my ethernet from very basic free-bee types to Cat-7 & including some loaned home demo high end demo's in between.  The sonic differences, to me,  were so small or non-existent as to be just not worth it.   I settled on Meicord Cat-6 mainly because their RJ45 plugs look to be better made than most,  they have applied an engineering logic to the cable that makes sense (to me) & they sound as good as any other cable I've tried.  

Same with mains,  I been around the block numbers of times experimenting in the vain search for audio utopia,  & that included a free PowerLine that got sold on.    I'm now using made to measure Mark Grant screened 2.5mm with well engineered plugs on the main units & PL Lite's to my PSU's.  I see this as simple practical application,  & I've no more wish to experiment.

I went to a Chord ‘streaming cable’ demo at a show a couple of years ago where they demonstrated a wide range of cables from generic Cat5e to super-expensive, and with each cable the guy looked expectantly at the audience, apparently hoping for positive reactions similar to those he was enthusing about. Blank/mildly bemused expressions all round. It was a bit embarrassing really. 

I expect the manufacturers make huge profits from the phenomena of expectation bias as their marketing strategies definitely take advantage of it. I know I fell in to the trap and bought a Chord C- Stream and later a Meicord opal, thankfully neither were a huge expense but between the two probably €160. I cant hear any discernible difference against a boggo cable. Anyway, as Mike mentioned above, it's nice to have a 'quality' cable and decent connectors regardless. 

I always ask the wife to listen, as she is completely honest, with no expectations or knowledge of the cost.....just likes it or not.

I purchased Cinnamon cables a while ago - cant here any difference what so ever.

I have a kept them on the basis that I know I have done everything I can to improve sound quality.

Aggregation of marginal gains and all that.

Yes I think expectation bias plays a big part. Now yes on a very revealing system one is   almost certainly going detect a different sonic feel with different Ethernet cables on a moderately closely coupled system such as a Naim streamer/DAC for example - or any cables carrying high frequency signals at relatively high voltages (compared to signal levels) for that matter  - as different ethernet cables all present themselves as different RF loads (as it will not be an idealised perfect transmission line) however to say one prefers one subtle difference to another - I suspect takes it more into the space of expectation bias as suggested... and the preference if any assuming no subconcious bias is as likely to be for a freebie cable as per one retailing at £1000 per metre.

ChrisSU posted:

I went to a Chord ‘streaming cable’ demo at a show a couple of years ago where they demonstrated a wide range of cables from generic Cat5e to super-expensive, and with each cable the guy looked expectantly at the audience, apparently hoping for positive reactions similar to those he was enthusing about. Blank/mildly bemused expressions all round. It was a bit embarrassing really. 

Quite the opposite of the dem I attended. Everyone recognised the improvements from one cable to the next - it was pretty clear. The amusing bit was some chap insisting that the demonstrator must have been using an MP3 for the bundled cable. 

In a group all it takes is for one member to say 'hmm yes that's much better I think' and everyone else will nod in agreement (or vice versa of course) and you get a 'group think' scenario. Double blind tests are the only way to prove a difference, be it good or bad.

I agree, but I'm happy to see that people dare to speak up in case they have a different opinion!

You're not alone...

https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...83#75342530237227983

Mercky posted:

In a group all it takes is for one member to say 'hmm yes that's much better I think' and everyone else will nod in agreement (or vice versa of course) and you get a 'group think' scenario. Double blind tests are the only way to prove a difference, be it good or bad.

I remember a Focus group that I attended for, IIRC, Hyundai.  The objective was to establish what new features "typical family drivers" would like to see in the next generation of MPVs.  It was relatively easy to position the group into insisting that the most important addition was an in-car toilet. 

Dave J posted:

Mercky posted:

In a group all it takes is for one member to say 'hmm yes that's much better I think' and everyone else will nod in agreement (or vice versa of course) and you get a 'group think' scenario. Double blind tests are the only way to prove a difference, be it good or bad.

I remember a Focus group that I attended for, IIRC, Hyundai.  The objective was to establish what new features "typical family drivers" would like to see in the next generation of MPVs.  It was relatively easy to position the group into insisting that the most important addition was an in-car toilet. 

good idea, to be avoided on the twisty bits though!

Interesting post, although it say we have the opposite more doubters, but each to their own and most of all £s saved ????

I have found nothing network related has made a difference in any of my systems. This includes changes to cables, switches, hardwired or wireless. This has been from my Roon server with music source via nas or local attached usb drive or internet stream. Same when upnp used from Nas or from local usb. Nothing sounded any different. This is on my Atom and all other kit I have. So I am. Firmly in the waste of money camp for Audiophile networking. Spend the money on better upgrades other than this. 

SimonPeterArnold posted:

I have found nothing network related has made a difference in any of my systems. This includes changes to cables, switches, hardwired or wireless. This has been from my Roon server with music source via nas or local attached usb drive or internet stream. Same when upnp used from Nas or from local usb. Nothing sounded any different. This is on my Atom and all other kit I have. So I am. Firmly in the waste of money camp for Audiophile networking. Spend the money on better upgrades other than this. 

Can’t say I’m that surprised, any differences I’ve heard between networks setups have been subtle at best, and certainly with my imperfect ears, I’d need something more revealing than an Atom to discern them. Also, the new Naim streamers have supposedly been designed to mitigate such effects more than the old models. 

I’ve found it best to ignore the opinions of anyone who says ‘the wife’. 

Your preferred description .....my wife is my wife? 

Trouble & Strife?

Bread Knife?

Perhaps we must stick to the discipline of SWMBO on the thread to please HH? We prefer to make the journey together, recent purchase has given us both great pleasure.

SWMBO is equally best avoided. The wife. The dog. The sofa. The objectivation. 

I do confess, I am sometimes refer to her as the Boss.... and probably best avoid posting here what she sometimes refers to me as 

‘My” wife, implying belonging to. ‘The” wife, statement of status, not objectifying. ‘The woman”.......

oh, the tangled web of language.

Still, the girls mother, said she couldn’t hear any difference when the new system was set up. A few weeks later, it’s “gosh that sounds great”. Ladies prerogative to change her mind.

i have regular Cat 6 cables. Sound fine to me.

This must be one of the last bastions of such outmoded, faintly patronising, descriptors. Surely we should all henceforth refer to our partners, or simply give them a name?!