Can lower than tolerance Voltage damage Naim Equipment?

The lower voltage won't cause harm to your Naim kit in itself.

There is though the question of why it's low and more particularly whether there is there any risk of it suddenly getting higher than it should be.

I suspect that it will all be fine. But I would indeed ring your electricity network company (not your electricity supplier). You can easily check who you call by going to UKpowernetworks.co.uk and checking whether you are in their area (I think you are).

best

David

Thanks David. That’s reassuring and thanks for the supplier info. Interestingly, it’s now at 236V and steady as a rock. It got Nowhere near that high at any point during the day before 7pm. 

There are voltage regulators in the substation that control line voltage automatically. They are set so the voltage to customers remains within the guidelines with varying load. If you are located far from the substation, your voltage may be lowish because the settings are for a point located midway along the distribution line. This can easily be corrected at the substation...

FWIW, I was told that the tolerance is actually +/- 10% as required by EU law and that this same tolerance is also applied to the 115v models. Their stated voltage support for 100v actually uses 115v transformers and relies on their tolerance for 100v. I myself use 115v units in a 100v location.

Naim kit does seem to be quite tolerant of some fairly wide voltage variance, so while using a 115V transformer for 100V mains supply is not ideal, it does seem to work OK, as FZ confirms above. Going the other way, I recall Warren Stolmack in Australia telling me some years back that in some remote parts of Australia  the voltage regularly exceeded 250V, which could cause problems for some things, but the Naim systems he knew of out there were still going strong in spite of it.

feeling_zen posted:

FWIW, I was told that the tolerance is actually +/- 10% as required by EU law and that this same tolerance is also applied to the 115v models. Their stated voltage support for 100v actually uses 115v transformers and relies on their tolerance for 100v. I myself use 115v units in a 100v location.

That was my understanding too FZ, but various sources on internet say it’s +10/-6% allowable range. Right now I’m at 212. I saw  235 at one point late last night and 198 earlier this morning! All over the shop..

BTW, I did the same when I lived in Japan. The transformers were ‘halved’ from U.K. voltage to give 115V . I recall that Osaka was 10V different to Tokyo. 110 and 100 ( I can’t recall which way round) . Is that still the same or did they standardise?

Naim aside, those fluctuatiobs seem very problematic. I'd be raising hell with your supplier. This could potential lead to malfubctions in anything from computers, an electric cooker, anything depending on it's design. Certainly if you wanted to open a prival dentist clinic at the proprty or something, medical equipment won't put up with that. I'd also check with whatever the ombudsman is for electrical supply (Ofwat? been out of UK too long to remember clearly). They may have guidelines on mandatory levels of service.

Ofwat is ....water...

its Ofgem, Office of Gas and Electricity Markets.

best

David 

This is what the dti has to say about it.

hope it is okay to paste the link to the dti website 

https://assets.publishing.serv...appliance-safety.pdf

13 year-old advice. I wouldn't necessarily rely on that.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

The lower voltage won't cause harm to your Naim kit in itself.

There is though the question of why it's low and more particularly whether there is there any risk of it suddenly getting higher than it should be.

I suspect that it will all be fine. But I would indeed ring your electricity network company (not your electricity supplier). You can easily check who you call by going to UKpowernetworks.co.uk and checking whether you are in their area (I think you are).

best

David

Thanks again for this David. U.K. power networks was the way forward. I’ve contacted them and an engineer will be calling me back ASAP. 

In the UK the permissible tolerance is 230VAC +10% -6%

The EU "harmonised" all voltages in 2003,  this then allowed every country to show their nominal voltage as 230v ..... UK used to be 240v & EU was 220v,  the harmonisation is a paper spec change only & in reality nothing was actually changed.     

240v in UK  is now spec'd as 230v +10% - 6% (which means between 216.2v to 253v), 

220v in Europe now spec'd as 230v -10% +6% (between 207v to 243.8v)

w.r.t.  Naim, it means the 230v transformers must be spec'd to work between 207 & 253 volts

But that does not mean the sub 216.2v supply that Kevin has reported is OK,  if his numbers are correct, the power supply does not comply to spec.

The short answer to the OP’s question (as per thread title) is “NO”.

The long answer is also “NO”.

kevin J Carden posted:

David Hendon posted:

The lower voltage won't cause harm to your Naim kit in itself.

There is though the question of why it's low and more particularly whether there is there any risk of it suddenly getting higher than it should be.

I suspect that it will all be fine. But I would indeed ring your electricity network company (not your electricity supplier). You can easily check who you call by going to UKpowernetworks.co.uk and checking whether you are in their area (I think you are).

best

David

Thanks again for this David. U.K. power networks was the way forward. I’ve contacted them and an engineer will be calling me back ASAP. 

An update for anyone interested. U.K. power networks have just finished a week long monitoring of my mains supply and I’ve seen the graphic which shows my supply below the lower allowed limit of 216V for around 20% of the time. The issue is that my substation supply is a 530 metre cable away and I’m at the end of the line. Unfortunately, there’s no closer alternative supply.

A solution will be discussed and I will be kept informed. A new substation is the best answer, but the beancounters will have to sign that off. The usual sticking point is acquiring land to site it. I have a large chunk of bushes/wilderness between me and the road, so I’m wondering whether or not to offer to host the substation myself. At least that way there’d be least delay and I’d have the not inconsiderable benefit of being first property on the line and getting the freshest juice.. Audiophilia gone mad?

If it’s going on your own land, why share it?!

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s...r-own-1785291714/amp

Some years ago I had a mains problem that resulted in my system (at that time CDS2/52/135s/Shahinian Obelisks) sounding awful - shrill and wearing. Thanks to good folk here lending me monitoring stuff I got the supplier to monitor it officially and they found it not only varying outside the allowed voltages but oscillating wildly within a few seconds.

They first tried adjusting the local sub-station, which had no effect, then they laid a new cable from a different sub-station to the house, which worked. They said that if that hadn’t worked they’d have given me my own sub-station (which would have been something special and Roy Riches would have passed out in ecstasy).

This was Seeboard.

Just a few days ago I had a power cut followed by a "brown out" - the lights were noticeably dimmer than they should be but the tv stayed on and working. My Nova, however, went into a state where the white power light was flashing. It seemed to be a code of some sort, 2 flashes than 3 or 4 or 6 (can't remember the exact sequence). I was going to write it down and contact Naim support but the power was then fully restored and the Nova turned itself back on and has been fine ever since. Seems a very elegant way of coping, but a worry at the time. Of course the online Uniti help documentation was as useless as ever.

My parents used to live out in the most rural part of rural Dorset and they had their own sub-station up on a couple of poles on the adjacent farm property. This was shared with the farmer who lived on site. One day there was a massive snowstorm and the overhead wires got damaged and that took out the substation. It took the local electricity board several days to helicopter in a new transformer and fit it on top of the pole to restore power. I suspect it was the farmer’s milking machine that made them do anything even that quickly as the snow still made road travel difficult.

Anyway I’m glad I share my (underground) power supply with hundreds of other properties here!

best

David

kevin J Carden posted:

kevin J Carden posted:

David Hendon posted:

The lower voltage won't cause harm to your Naim kit in itself.

There is though the question of why it's low and more particularly whether there is there any risk of it suddenly getting higher than it should be.

I suspect that it will all be fine. But I would indeed ring your electricity network company (not your electricity supplier). You can easily check who you call by going to UKpowernetworks.co.uk and checking whether you are in their area (I think you are).

best

David

Thanks again for this David. U.K. power networks was the way forward. I’ve contacted them and an engineer will be calling me back ASAP. 

An update for anyone interested. U.K. power networks have just finished a week long monitoring of my mains supply and I’ve seen the graphic which shows my supply below the lower allowed limit of 216V for around 20% of the time. The issue is that my substation supply is a 530 metre cable away and I’m at the end of the line. Unfortunately, there’s no closer alternative supply.

A solution will be discussed and I will be kept informed. A new substation is the best answer, but the beancounters will have to sign that off. The usual sticking point is acquiring land to site it. I have a large chunk of bushes/wilderness between me and the road, so I’m wondering whether or not to offer to host the substation myself. At least that way there’d be least delay and I’d have the not inconsiderable benefit of being first property on the line and getting the freshest juice.. Audiophilia gone mad?

That has got to be the ultimate hi-fi goal

To have your own dedicated substation!!

Wish I did ...where I used to live the large substation was at the bottom of my garden ...put in for my little 18 house estate...of which I was number 1 ...we never even gave supply a second thought back then (1983) but my Naim based system always sounded great !!

Hi Kevin,

Having UKPN provide you with a dedicated sub-station would be ideal but may take some time.  In the meantime, you might want to investigate installing one of these: an Airlink Transformers BPS7500MP.  We have its smaller sibling the MP5000MP on a dedicated radial supply for the hifi.

This does require installation by a qualified electrician and the installation must meet all relevant standards.

There is a long thread of mine about it from 3-4 years ago called "Suffering from those transformer hum blues?"

Once UKPN installs the new substation, your electrician can just change the setting on the BPS to give the voltage that you want.

Hope this helps, FT