N 272 (not) gone from website

Its still there - https://www.naimaudio.com/streaming-and-multiroom from Streaming & Multiroom Audio section on the homepage -> Streaming Preamplifier tab.

I think it must be an error on the updated website as the XP5XS has reappeared 

Sorry guys,I found it,they just rearranged the website a little.

But it is to go very soon according to my well connected dealer...

And be replaced with........

My guess...N272/2 with the new platform, better internal screening and a colour screen.....and not a N372. Surely all the existing (and continuing) streamers (including the only streamer/pre) have/will migrate to the new platform. Naim could of course stop production of the N272 and choose not to replace it, like the NDS.

Maybe N572

Japtimscarlet posted:

But it is to go very soon according to my well connected dealer...

Your dealer may be well connected but he really should keep his gob shut. I know my dealer really well, but never in the 26 years I’ve known them have they revealed anything. There should be trust between the dealers and Naim. 

It’s obvious that the 272 will go, as it’s on the old platform. It’s pretty well certain that there will be a ‘better’ new platform version, but whether it’s better enough to warrant changing, and whether there will be a higher level streaming preamp are the interesting questions. No amount of speculation will make the answers come any sooner. 

The only way to stop this happening is at the  Naim end...if they can make sure their reps say nothing.....nothing gets out. This happened on Uniti and the latest streamers, either deliberate or self inflicted.

I don’t agree with that. The dealers need to know what is happening as it determines whether they buy demo stock, or start to sell their demo units. But when they do know, they should keep quiet. 

That’s a difficult one. Supposing the dealers are told in advance (do any of us truly know if this is the case or not?), that could place them in a difficult position with some customers. Commercially, the dealers need to shift stock for which they’ve already paid. They know full well that to be saddled with yesterday’s model means having to offer significant discounts, and losing profit. On the other hand I would be none to pleased to hand over £4k for an amp, streamer, whatever, only to discover the following week it had been replaced with a far superior version, especially if I then found out my dealer knew this was about to happen! I know there’s no easy answer, but I tend to agree with Gazza - Naim should keep completely shtum until ready to launch the product (preferably one that works well from the outset!).

Well on thinking about it HH makes a good point about trust and stock....but this keeps happening, and I guess will continue then, and  perhaps Naim have it all worked out in the timing of dealer information. Accepting there will be leaks, sooner or later.

It’s really difficult to manage. Looking at it the other way, when we were beta testing Tidal we knew it was coming before the dealers. Did any of us leak? No we didn’t. Yet some dealers, whose income partly relies on sales of Naim, blab at the first opportunity. 

Yes, the dealers have a dilemma here, assuming they are informed early about new models. Do they push 'about to be replaced stock' onto unsuspecting customers to minimise price cutting and risk upsetting loyal and valuable customers. You could say it is a case of caveat emptor, but a loyal, high-value customer of high end HiFi is a rare and precious thing.

The opposite problem is that occasionally a customer could postpone a purchase as they believe a replacement is imminent. A good example are those that have put off buying a classic pre or power amp because they believe a new line is just around the corner. We have seen evidence of this for years on this forum.

The reality is that most Naimees are pretty switched on and, if they are 'loyal', that suggests this kind of customer has been buying Naim for a number of years. 

Who would be a Naim dealer!

The NDac just quietly falling off its perch, seems to make a little sense in this conundrum?

You could argue that, with the advent of the new streamers, the need for a Classic level stand alone DAC is somewhat diminished. Clearly Naim, at the higher end, have nailed their colours firmly to the UPnP mast, rather than a Mac and DAC approach. Are they selling enough current NDacs to warrant a replacement. I am not so sure.

nigelb posted:

You could argue that, with the advent of the new streamers, the need for a Classic level stand alone DAC is somewhat diminished. Clearly Naim, at the higher end, have nailed their colours firmly to the UPnP mast, rather than a Mac and DAC approach. Are they selling enough current NDacs to warrant a replacement. I am not so sure.

Yep. It's still a very nice piece of kit with a fair few inputs but it's a bit behind the times with no USB option. 

The Ndac is discontinued 

Does anyone know what DAC chips are in the 272?I have read here that some people believe the pre-amp section is what holds the 272 back,let’s say compared to a 282/252 or CDX2,is it because of the Pre,the DAC,or the Streamer?How can one really know,since they are all in the same box.

nigelb posted:

Yes, the dealers have a dilemma here, assuming they are informed early about new models. Do they push 'about to be replaced stock' onto unsuspecting customers to minimise price cutting and risk upsetting loyal and valuable customers. You could say it is a case of caveat emptor, but a loyal, high-value customer of high end HiFi is a rare and precious thing.

The opposite problem is that occasionally a customer could postpone a purchase as they believe a replacement is imminent. A good example are those that have put off buying a classic pre or power amp because they believe a new line is just around the corner. We have seen evidence of this for years on this forum.

The reality is that most Naimees are pretty switched on and, if they are 'loyal', that suggests this kind of customer has been buying Naim for a number of years. 

Who would be a Naim dealer!

I’m a bit stuck in the opposite camp problem. Would like to think about upgrading from a Nova to a two box solution, but stay with the new streaming technology. This rules out the N272 NAP250 route and leaves the NDX2/SN2 option. But I prefer the cleaner aserhics and volume non of the Nova (don’t like a big redundant balance thingy on the SN2. So a new N272 might be the ticket. But who knows and which sounds best since they are almost the same price. So I’m left doing nothing, which is probally best overall ????save money. But no sale for Naim or the dealer either.

No quarter posted:

Does anyone know what DAC chips are in the 272?I have read here that some people believe the pre-amp section is what holds the 272 back,let’s say compared to a 282/252 or CDX2,is it because of the Pre,the DAC,or the Streamer?How can one really know,since they are all in the same box.

The NAC-N272 has a Burr Brown PCM1792A DAC, which is used in current output mode and with discrete I-V conversion.

p.s. I've edited your thread title to avoid confusion.

Yes also worth remembering Burr Brown no longer exists as a company or manufacturer, it’s simply used as a product marketing brand now as it was bought by Texas Instruments many years ago. The manufacturer is now and has been for a while Texas Instruments .. so if you are interested in these devices then you should refer to the TI product pages. Naim digital components appear to use quite a lot of TI and Analog Devices componentry. Having said the application notes for the TI PCM1704K have now appeared to be removed as it is officially obsolete... but unofficial copies do exist still on the web. The PCM1792A is still very current and is on the TI site.

http://www.ti.com/product/PCM1792A#

The TI PCM1792A is still a very good Sigma-Delta DAC, but the DAC chip is just one component in the DAC system: arguably, in real life, the circuitry and firmware surrounding the DAC chip have a much greater influence on the overall sound of the system.

Thanks Richard and Simon,I know when I compared the internal DAC in the 272 with the Hugo 1 and 2,I heard no reason to add one.The Dave was obviously better,at a cost I was not willing to spend.All these comparisons were using the SPDIF out from my Core.My local dealer is getting an Mscaler (Chord) in for me to demo the same way,possibly with  TT2,or the Qutest.That might not happen until next year though.I just read yesterday on Headfi,that Rob Watts drives B&W 803’s directly from the Hugo TT,so I want to try this with my Sopra’s.

All I can say that , as a customer, I would be really angry with my dealer if I bought a bit of kit and found it superceded a short time later, especially if he explicitly knew of this.

So I am in the camp of its Naim's job to keep quiet, not the dealers.

On the NDAC front, I would welcome the continuation of a classic high-level Dac from Naim as, being a bit of a "bits is bits"  person, I/m not sure I would go the expensive streamer route but rather my next (and last) upgrade might be to replace my DAC V1 with a better DAC and stream via raspberry pi/Roon/Tidal for a lot less than a Naim streamer. Money would be invested in the DAC, not the computer stuff.

Allan