Need to replace the front display of my Naim Unity MYSELF

oh Well

I don’t think it’s a simple as changing one resistor

its knowing which one it was .... and the skill in changing it without damaging the rest and ... giving a warranty for that repair..

im ok with a fixed price repair.... 

sjw posted:

A resistor is 10 pence or so. That means £320.90 for an hour and a half labour. Rip off

Is it really though? Regardless of how simple the task is, the same highly skilled Naim engineer does the work. The cost of their time is flat. Naim have to pay that person the same regardless of whether they are replacing your OLED screen or servicing a 552. In addition, that's not the only time spent on the unit. There will be a much lesser but still valid cost in the time spent unboxing and reboxing. Plus the cost of the item itself. And everything has to contribute to a tiny share of the RMA admin overhead.

Let's say

- A resistor that meets Naim standards was hand selected from 10 with the others rejected. Cost of each resistor that made it into their parts bin GBP 10.
- The RMA admin contribution is GBP 5 covers the time spent doing a few mins paperwork and contribution to the RMA system.
- Someone at a lower wage spends a few mins unboxing and tracking your unit: GBP 5
- A skilled service engineer spends 1.5 hour replacing the item which includes testing it and having a quick once over for other obvious issues: GBP 90.
- Someone at a lower wage spends a few more minutes boxing it up for return. Generally this also adds a new box if needed and new product labels and staples: GBP 10.

That's GBP 125 in completely made up but easy to imagine costs. Then say a normal business will want to ensure you get 100% markup of servicing otherwise it isn't worth it (I've heard arguments at companies for not bothering for less than 200% return) and you get to GBP 250. Add on a base fee and you can easily get to GBP 320 in 2018.

Also remember that Naim have no way of judging who is and is not qualified beyond their trained engineers to do the work. I'm technically inclined and know I can replace parts - but Naim don't know that and it is a Naim unit going out there into the market potentially for second hand sale with their reputation on it.

And bear in mind most items don't develop any faults at all and make it to their 10 year service period fault free. It is not like something went wrong that always goes wrong and every man woman and child who own these units are shelling out a fortune for constant repairs. They're not.

Why do so many of you will blindly  jump to Naim's defence when as fellow consumers we should be supportive of each other I can't think of another brand where this would happen shouldn't we all be slightly concerned at some of the issues raised in this thread.  As I understand it Naim found a fault so bad in the display of one and therefore you have suspect all of their Uniti models from this period that they completely redesigned it,  this in it's self is of little concern but that they would charge people almost a third of the original cost of the entire unit to replace this faulty and then redesigned display after only 8 years does seem a bit strong.

Let's be honest we are not talking about a £100 amp from Richer Sounds here these all in one streamers cost thousands of pounds new and so shouldn't we expect them to last but we are actually talking about a manufacturers fault here this isn't normal wear and tear and therefore should be put right at the manufacturer's cost. I actually turned down a used Uniti of this exact type two weeks ago because the screen had gone and this one was more like six years old I wonder how many of you would buy a new NDX2 if you were told at the point of purchase that the display could well fail after 6 to 8 years and if it does you will be charged almost a third of the price you are paying in this case over a thousand pounds to repair it?

I do get the fixed repair fee system and for all the reasons given by Naim but the £300 odd charged for replacing a single  resistor in a faulty Nail XS is well over board couldn't this be a two or even three tiered system, £100 if it falls into cat A, £350 for cat B and maybe £550 for category C?                                                                            

I never expected that my post would trigger that many reactions. It is certainly consolatory to read supporting similar stories and somehow “interesting” to read unconditional Naim supporters. I have seen reactions from the latter that – sorry to say – leave me voiceless since I was naively (?) expecting more if not full support in this forum.

I am still on the fact that my case is really straightforward and does not need days of testing and expensive replacement parts. That display is, hardware-wise, easy to replace and the overall design of such a costly appliance should allow easy re-programming, if ever needed, or should come re-programmed. Or should not need any reprogramming at all.

I happened not to pay a penny for the replacement of a defective air conditioning on a Citroen (costly parts and hours of work) way after the end of the warranty period just because Citroen accepted that there might have been a design problem. I agree all comparisons are questionable but the seller's commercial approach is to be considered.

Anyway, that long list of comments illustrates that there is a clear dissatisfaction if not frustration. I am truly sorry to see that Naim’s staff does not seem to consider changing their position. As far as I am concerned, the story is over. And I will certainly not pay 370 Euros to Naim.

All very well, but trust me you Mr Zen wouldn't have been amused by the £390 bill ( it went had had to go to Sheffield then Naim then Sheffield then home) for that time and 10p part.

I've not had a display 'go' on any other electrical item in my 58 years

I feel your pain, SJW. I had a similar experience with  my unit going from home-service-home-service-Naim-service-home two years ago. Now the display is gone. Am going to go through that again? Hell no!  Really frustrating but think i found the solution. No pretty but,  hey, it works.

Hello Tony, not nice as you say ;-)

But : iOS or Android. I can't have the app running with Android. It does show my Naim Unity B840 but when i click on it I'm back to "configure a new product" or "find a product".

Sorry Pierre, no idea as I'm running IOS and it's perfect at the moment. 

Tony2011 posted:

I feel your pain, SJW. I had a similar experience with  my unit going from home-service-home-service-Naim-service-home two years ago. Now the display is gone. Am going to go through that again? Hell no!  Really frustrating but think i found the solution. No pretty but,  hey, it works.

 

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Pierre,

Sorry about your situation and frustration .

A company that is the benchmark for me is Bryston they offer a 20 year guarantee on their amplifiers and 5 on their electronics. I have had 2 differant preamps a 0.5 with a loose Phono socket and a 12 B with a LED failure.In each instance the turn around to Canada was a month.They came back with new boxes and a detailed list of capacitors they had replaced and other parts.No idea what as I am not an electronics engineer.The 12 B preamp had a slight scratch on the case and I noticed they made it vanish.Every Christmas they send me a Christmas card.Just incredible customer service.And all free of charge they even reimbursed my dealer for the forwarding postage.So it is possible with other companies to really look after their customers.

Pierre B posted:

I am still on the fact that my case is really straightforward and does not need days of testing and expensive replacement parts. That display is, hardware-wise, easy to replace and the overall design of such a costly appliance should allow easy re-programming, if ever needed, or should come re-programmed. Or should not need any reprogramming at all.

I happened not to pay a penny for the replacement of a defective air conditioning on a Citroen (costly parts and hours of work) way after the end of the warranty period just because Citroen accepted that there might have been a design problem. I agree all comparisons are questionable but the seller's commercial approach is to be considered.

Anyway, that long list of comments illustrates that there is a clear dissatisfaction if not frustration. I am truly sorry to see that Naim’s staff does not seem to consider changing their position. As far as I am concerned, the story is over. And I will certainly not pay 370 Euros to Naim.

The car analogies don't work.  PSA probaly make more in an hour that Naim do in a year so they could have given you a new car and barely noticed. Car spares and replacements are designed from the outset on a huge scale. 

I suspect Naim are not in breach of any consumer laws so you may have to appeal to their good nature.    Have you tried writing to them (politley) ?

Try getting Pioneer to get interested about even thinking of repairing one of their old plasma TV, screens.....tried that one. Things go wrong some will fix their old product, others have moved on and want you to do the same! If it’s under 6 years old you can hold them to account through the courts if need be, but they all bet you will not bother.

I know the car analogy does not quite work, it is just an image. I could have taken other examples from my previous Chrysler or Renault cars. I do not believe the scale is an excuse since, Naim, just as Renault, PSA, Chrysler and others, probably turn against the (display in this case) manufacturer when a pervasive / design issue occurs. At least, they should.

This is not the point. The point is the attitude, the respect of customers. Best example : I did write to Naim, politely of course but they just stay on their position, they do not have any authorized warranty or service providers apart from themselves and they do not ship spare parts unless you are a reseller. Standard, stubborn answer. I considered the legal aspects as I am not sure that such a policy would be legal in France but I cannot say for sure especially in the UK unless some consumer related laws are valid Europe wide ?  I may consider a real (paper) mail...

Bob the Builder posted:

Why do so many of you will blindly  jump to Naim's defence when as fellow consumers we should be supportive of each other I can't think of another brand where this would happen shouldn't we all be slightly concerned at some of the issues raised in this thread.  As I understand it Naim found a fault so bad in the display of one and therefore you have suspect all of their Uniti models from this period that they completely redesigned it,  this in it's self is of little concern but that they would charge people almost a third of the original cost of the entire unit to replace this faulty and then redesigned display after only 8 years does seem a bit strong.

Let's be honest we are not talking about a £100 amp from Richer Sounds here these all in one streamers cost thousands of pounds new and so shouldn't we expect them to last but we are actually talking about a manufacturers fault here this isn't normal wear and tear and therefore should be put right at the manufacturer's cost. I actually turned down a used Uniti of this exact type two weeks ago because the screen had gone and this one was more like six years old I wonder how many of you would buy a new NDX2 if you were told at the point of purchase that the display could well fail after 6 to 8 years and if it does you will be charged almost a third of the price you are paying in this case over a thousand pounds to repair it?

I do get the fixed repair fee system and for all the reasons given by Naim but the £300 odd charged for replacing a single  resistor in a faulty Nail XS is well over board couldn't this be a two or even three tiered system, £100 if it falls into cat A, £350 for cat B and maybe £550 for category C?                                                                            

We operate eight training aeroplanes, each with modern "glass cockpits" ie monitors rather than individual instruments.

The manufacturers of these installations and their dealers operate a "fixed fee" repair programme. Last time I used it, it was £500 regardless of whatever fault was diagnosed and repaired, even replacing the internal battery which seems to have a life-span  of about 5 years.

The £500 charge is about equal to the average cost of all repairs. Effectively, it works more like an insurance policy . No individual is faced with an unfortunate but abnormally expensive repair/replacement bill, but equally, the lucky few who might otherwise get though life with a 10p resistor and a £120 labour cost do have to share some of the overall cost.

But now we are discussing the politics of life. individual responsibility v collective risk-sharing !

I do think Naim do themselves no favours here as for a relatively small cost they could garner a great deal of goodwill and positive PR. I'm not suggesting they do these repairs for free, but no amount of creative accountancy will convince me that £350 to replace an OLED display is not quite lucrative, as everyone seems to like the car analogy it's like going to Renault and asking for a door mirror and they tell you it's flat £3500 be it for gearbox, engine rebuild or mirror. 

This is a display that from all I've read, has a particularly high fail rate well before the service life. So well known a failing in fact that the common advise given on forums for these products is only use the display for 10-20 seconds to try and prolong it's life. So that's my £3500 272 I can't glance up to see what's playing, I have to unlock my phone, then wait for the app to find the unit before I can get any information, for a £3500 product that's very disappointing.

I've a Unity Qute in the kitchen and over the last month or so the display has faded about 60%, more in the clock area which seems to be the way these things fail, so that's about 60% loss in it's value as well. I had a four year old VW Passat and was the second owner. They got in touch with me, took the car off me for two and a half weeks while I had a loaner, stripped out the interior to replace the electrical loom that runs the length of the floor, all because a design flaw in the AC was leaking water in there. No charge. Leica M9 sensors where failing after 4-6 years, some camera's having changed hands more than once, they took them back and replaced the sensor. In comparison an OLED seems small beer, I'd think £150 should cover all their costs and would seem fair cost to me.

I've owned Naim for coming up thirty years now having four systems in that time, and I wouldn't have looked outside of Naim for electronics because I've always loved the products and importantly the continued support meant you could bank on their retaining their value. I think things like this will change that.

I guess it hinges on whether a display fails through normal wear and tear, just like other things might fail, or whether it’s because Naim fitted displays that turn out to be of poor quality or are in some way faulty. If it’s the former then asking the customer to pay, a specific or a fixed price, seems entirely reasonable. If it’s the latter, then the car recall analogy and a free repair, would seem what should happen, maybe with the customer paying postage and the cost of parts and labour and Naim covering parts and labour. 

I don’t like having the display on so it’s always been set to go off as quickly as possible. Others however like to have the display on, maybe for the clock, and if they wish to they should be able to. Let’s face it, you can pick up a twenty year old CD player for virtually nothing on eBay, plug it in and the display will still work. 

There do seem to be large numbers of failing displays. There is an advert for a six year old NDS on a Naim dealer’s website at the moment and one of the things it says is that ‘the display is nice and bright!’ which shows that it’s an acknowledged problem. It seems a reasonable conclusion from the numbers conking out that the displays are not what they should be and on that basis I’d say that Naim should face up to it and replace any that fail at no cost, other than postage. 

This thread puts me in mind of my Dad and his first ever Mercedes. He’d lusted after one for decades, and finally bought a very nice, reasonably priced second hand 300SLK. What he hadn’t factored in were the approved dealers servicing costs, and the price of original parts!

The moral of this story? If you can’t afford the cost of ownership, best look elsewhere. If you’re covered by consumer law, by all means press your case. If not, as the youngsters of today say, ‘suck it up’!

Going back to auto anolagy, even Rolls and Bentley have quality control problems although like Naim they will try to hide it. Several years ago a rich friend purchased a new Rolls. It was for ever going in for repairs. Rolls offered to replace it, he said no, this is the car I want so you repair it. Eventually he was satisfied. At this point he rejected the car and Rolls replaced it, he wanted the next punter who purchased the car to have a fully operational car. Back to Naim, some years ago my mother and I purchased two Naim systems for our respective homes after extensive comparisons. I was slightly jealous as mum's was the more expensive! Within warranty mine would not change input without powering down, it needed rebooting to allow me to change input, apparently a known problem on my amp (why no recall?) It was repaired but still very occasionally exhibited the same problem. On the whole I was satisfied until, just out of warranty my mother's amp blew and took out both speakers. For 300 odd quid Naim replaced output transistors and a number of other components. I thought the cost reasonable but was upset and very annoyed that 2 Naim amps packed up, smacks of incompetents to me! I vowed not to purchase Naim again. Here's the problem, at upgrade time I couldn't find another manufacturer that could match the music coming from Naim, so touch wood, I'm the pleased owner of a 272 and 250 DR amoung other assorted bits of Naim, Linn, PMC and Rega equipment. I just hope I've made the correct decision in spending close to 10 grand on a company that I once vowed never to purchase from again. I can understand Naim or any other reputable company (in my view auto manufacturers are definitely not reputable) not selling spares to un approved repair facilities. A quick look through this forum will show one or two fully Naim approved repair companies that in most cases are cheaper than Salisbury. Rich

Scenario 1

Dealer ships faulty unit to Naim

Service engineer tests unit. Probably dismantles partially to diagnose problem

Service engineer creates a quotation for the cost of the necessary repair(s).

Service engineer packs unit in a box, possibly partially reassembles. Labels box and takes to store.

Quotation sent to dealer.

Quotation forwarded to customer.

Then:

Customer is on holiday and 3 weeks later responds that the repair cost is too high.

Dealer notifies Naim not to proceed with repair.

Service engineer retrieves box from storage.

Service engineer fully reassembles faulty unit.

Service engineer prepares bill for fault diagnosis. (Hourly rates now higher due to storage and extra paperwork overhead).

Send Invoice to Dealer.

Forward Invoice to customer.

Customer prevaricates over paying for fault diagnosis.

Naim return Faulty unit to storage.

Etc.

Scenario 2

Unit shipped to Naim on the understanding that Dealer will pay the fixed repair fee and then deal with customer.

Service engineer tests unit, diagnoses problem, fixes problem, soak tests, reboxes. (All in a single on bench transaction)

Naim ship repaired unit to Dealer.

Probably not much consolation if your repair happens to be a simple one but a fixed price repair service reduces the hourly cost of repair service and hence the average repair cost.

Regards,

Willy.

Remember, if this failed in warranty, it would be free of charge. It's failed after the 5 year warranty and yes it costs a bomb. I think my post was misconstrued.  I was just explaining (from experience I might add of working in companies that privide various after sale services) that the cost is not an attemp to rip people off. The economies of scale a company employs to push out a competative product don't help when doing more one-off type things and in fact work against you a bit. And unlike products, services generally need a 100% to 200% return to be considered worthwhile. Not to mention the spare parts Naim keep for servicing everything they've ever made (which might not get used) all add up and all take up space for years. You're also paying for that bit of shelf space as a privilege for the possibility to be fixed.

If someone feels hard done by the cost or thinks the cost should go down relative to the resale value..well that's their business I suppose. 

The fact is, Naim can still repaire it. Try getting Mark Levinson stuff fixed by the maker after just 2 years and see the result. 

Neither my last Onkyo amp or Yamaha DVD player could be fixed after just 2 years. Neither kept spare parts that long. 

It's reasonable to be angry about the cost. I don't think that requires blame to be attributed though. You can be angry about the bad luck of it all. Life's a bitch at times and not anyone's fault.

I need to get my naim tuner NAT 01 repaired and wanted to send it directly to Naim but was told i need to do it through a dealer. So i'm going to have to pay for a middle man who's going to charge me probably an extra £50 for his cut, on top of delivery charges.

Super posted:

I need to get my naim tuner NAT 01 repaired and wanted to send it directly to Naim but was told i need to do it through a dealer. So i'm going to have to pay for a middle man who's going to charge me probably an extra £50 for his cut, on top of delivery charges.

With the odd exception, Naim have required service items to be sent to them via a dealer for many years now.  There should be no additional charge (delivery charges excepted) made by the dealer over Naim's service cost.

I sent my 20 year old Aro (through my dealer) back for a service

They completely rewired it , serviced the spindle and cleaned the bearing, redid the earthing paint , and covered the cost of shipping both ways

For £250

Good value as it added £250 to the potential resale value for probably the next 5 years plus

Richard Dane posted:

Super posted:

I need to get my naim tuner NAT 01 repaired and wanted to send it directly to Naim but was told i need to do it through a dealer. So i'm going to have to pay for a middle man who's going to charge me probably an extra £50 for his cut, on top of delivery charges.

With the odd exception, Naim have required service items to be sent to them via a dealer for many years now.  There should be no additional charge (delivery charges excepted) made by the dealer over Naim's service cost.

I returned my nDAC via my dealer. No costs other than courier charges that were very low anyway. Top service ☺

feeling_zen posted:

Remember, if this failed in warranty, it would be free of charge. It's failed after the 5 year warranty and yes it costs a bomb. I think my post was misconstrued.  I was just explaining (from experience I might add of working in companies that privide various after sale services) that the cost is not an attemp to rip people off. The economies of scale a company employs to push out a competative product don't help when doing more one-off type things and in fact work against you a bit. And unlike products, services generally need a 100% to 200% return to be considered worthwhile. Not to mention the spare parts Naim keep for servicing everything they've ever made (which might not get used) all add up and all take up space for years. You're also paying for that bit of shelf space as a privilege for the possibility to be fixed.

If someone feels hard done by the cost or thinks the cost should go down relative to the resale value..well that's their business I suppose. 

The fact is, Naim can still repaire it. Try getting Mark Levinson stuff fixed by the maker after just 2 years and see the result. 

Neither my last Onkyo amp or Yamaha DVD player could be fixed after just 2 years. Neither kept spare parts that long. 

It's reasonable to be angry about the cost. I don't think that requires blame to be attributed though. You can be angry about the bad luck of it all. Life's a bitch at times and not anyone's fault.

The warranty is not 5 years, it's only 2, the extended warranty, the additional 3 years, only affords you discounted repair costs, for instance my 28 month old Unitiserve has failed and attracts a standard extended warranty repair charge of £340. This information/cost was provide by my dealer via Naim prior to my Unitiserve being sent for repair.

It was initially delayed as Naim didn't have sufficient space to accommodate my unit and asked my dealer to hold onto it for a couple of weeks until they found a repair slot.