Am I near a point of pointless upgrades?

Popeye, I once auditioned the HicapDr on the SN2 where Tidal was used as source (nd5xs as source). Despite TIdal was used, the difference was still obvious.

The difference on my SN1 was much bigger since the Dr effect was introduced.

If you see Tidal as the limiting factor, you might try Qobuz implemented by running BubbleUPnP server, controlled by the Lumin app. You may be able to run this on a computer or NAS that you already own, in which case it costs nothing, and the general consensus is that it sounds better than Tidal. 

I am not sure, the reason I ask, A dealer said to me that there would be no point in me adding black boxes and would dramatically benefit in getting a core ripping to naim server and reckons it far superior to any third party server/Nas. 

Or buying hi res and storing on core. 

I would strongly disagree with your dealer if he thinks that the best qound quality improvement you can get with £2k is to buy a Core. Get an ordinary NAS for £300 and spend the rest on your system. Assuming, that is, that you want to abandon your new age lifestyle and start buying CDs, but I assumed from your earlier post that you didn’t want to do this. 

Sure there are folk here streaming Tidal from ND555.

I would do a simple test if your NDX allows a USB type connection, rips some FLAC/WAV files to that and try, will give you a taster.

I did this and found yes ripped is better (nothing major), but traded it off versus the ease of Tidal and colleague.

Others have mentioned Qobuz and others also Tidal or Qubuz by Bubble uPNP being close to ripped.

I would look at upgrading to one of the new Naim streamers for sound quality. The Core is great if uhave lots of cd,s, it’s convenient, easy to use, but expensive. The limitation would still be your NDX.

I’ve tried streaming Tidal via the 272 and it’s pretty dreadful, to me anyway. But Qobuz using Bubble is much better, pretty well the same as locally stored rips. But then high res downloads are better still. 

I would not view limiting yourself to online streamed sources as requiring a "dead end" to improving sound quality at home in a "nice" system.  These online services are still in their infancy, and lossless and better-than-lossless is available now and (hopefully) will continue to improve.

But I do share the sentiments that, on a fixed budget, a $300 nas is a better fit than a $2000 Core.

From my experience local streaming (be that ripped CD files or downloaded hires files) from a NAS (or Core), in the main, sounds better than Tidal. If you are limited to Tidal, then maybe this is what your dealer meant when he said that future upgrades were pointless unless you were going to start streaming locally (as he suggested, from a Core).

You may get a marginal improvement with Qobuz and/or using Bubble UPnP, but good quality, locally streamed files will usually sound superior, to these ears anyway.

I would agree however that a decent NAS with some decent UPnP software installed offers good VFM over a Core, assuming you have a way of ripping CDs.

No pointless at all !

i would try xps2 and Hicap dr ....

Nigel

I agree with you about TIDAL but I do think Qobuz via Bubble gets close.

I sometimes wonder in these contexts whether 'better' is really the correct judgement. Sometimes I think, to me at least, different is more apt. Couple of days ago I was comparing some Ella Fitzgerald from the songbooks, ripped CD vs Qobuz Hi-Res studio. On first hearing I preferred the CD rip as it appeared to be more up front and alive. On reflection however it was just different, possibly a different master, and the hi-res version was more relaxing and revealing. Probably think differently next time I hear it!

But if you have no CDs there is no need to rip them. You can just get downloads. 

hungryhalibut posted:

But if you have no CDs there is no need to rip them. You can just get downloads. 

Would you really trust what’s been selling?

hungryhalibut posted:

But if you have no CDs there is no need to rip them. You can just get downloads. 

Yes, but since I started streaming, combined with sampling new music finds on Tidal, I have never bought so many CDs, because the vast majority of my new finds are only available on CD.

The direction the OP might take will depend on if he wishes to expand/instigate a collection of music, if he believes better quality is available from local streaming and how much he wishes to spend.

It is always tricky comparing the 'same' CD streamed from external sources vs locally as you may not be listening to the same master/version, and to me the variability in the master often trumps the variability of local vs external streaming. But it is my experience, all things being equal, that local streaming offers better (not just different) SQ.

Well, I can only go on my experience but I’ve downloaded probably 500 albums from Qobuz and they have all been fine. I’ve also bought from High Res Audio, Bandcamp and direct from record companies. Other than a few metadata issues the sound quality has been what I’d expect. I see no point in buying a CD and then ripping it and storing it in the loft, never to be looked at again. It’s a waste of plastic if nothing else. 

When I had my core into 272/xpsdr it was definitely a superior quality to tidal (hi-fi)

Now with core /252/NDS the gap has closed to such an extent that tidal is the preferred choice for a listening session

I think the NDS seems to render tidal (somehow) "better" than the 272 ever did ...and TBH the 272 was  good .. especially after the firmware upgrade

hungryhalibut posted:

Well, I can only go on my experience but I’ve downloaded probably 500 albums from Qobuz and they have all been fine. I’ve also bought from High Res Audio, Bandcamp and direct from record companies. Other than a few metadata issues the sound quality has been what I’d expect. I see no point in buying a CD and then ripping it and storing it in the loft, never to be looked at again. It’s a waste of plastic if nothing else. 

Agreed with one caveat. If all that is available for download is 16/44 a look on the second hand CD sites is always worthwhile, they really are very cheap these days.

I wonder if the issue some people have with Tidal streaming is down to the Naim implementation of Tidal in some of its older streamers.

I no longer have a Naim streamer (other than a Muso Qb) to compare, but I find Tidal streaming to be pretty decent on both of my (non Naim) systems.   

hungryhalibut posted:

..................    I see no point in buying a CD and then ripping it and storing it in the loft, never to be looked at again. It’s a waste of plastic if nothing else. 

Absolutely CD's are a waste of plastic.   However I do find I get pushed into CD purchase because downloads are not available in my quest to replace some of my old 60's & 70's material.    I also get a bit into angry mode over the apparent indifference of the download vendors with pricing & marketplace competition,  it seems they are taking advantage & we the gullible fall for it or just don't care.  Its not that I can't afford it,  far from it,  but why pay £15 for a 'CD' quality download when the CD can be bought for £5.

Finally Qobuz need to step up the quality with their metadata & editing in general,  I rarely buy a Qobuz without having to fiddle with something,  compared to HighResAudio where I don't recall ever finding a problem. 

hungryhalibut posted:

Well, I can only go on my experience but I’ve downloaded probably 500 albums from Qobuz and they have all been fine. I’ve also bought from High Res Audio, Bandcamp and direct from record companies. Other than a few metadata issues the sound quality has been what I’d expect. I see no point in buying a CD and then ripping it and storing it in the loft, never to be looked at again. It’s a waste of plastic if nothing else. 

Fine, if cost is of no concern. The majority of Qobuz downloads (special deals aside) are considerably more expensive than a large percentage of CDs available from the Amazon Marketplace. On average I pay less than £5 for the bulk of my CDs (recognising I’m never in a rush to have the latest releases), which includes the postage. I don’t see many Qobuz offerings for much less than £10. A further benefit is that the CD is yours forever, should the unthinkable ever happen and you need to download from a company that’s gone out of business. Unlikely I know, but there are still some who like the additional security of owning the tangible, no matter how many backups they might have

Re my rant about the music download vendors taking advantage & apparent indifference with pricing & marketplace competition.    I just ran a price comparison of TV & music streaming,  I picked Netflix & Qobuz. 

Netflix - £107.88 a year for the premium account & all in HD.

Qobuz -  £119.88 a year for MP3,  £239.88 for 16/44 FLAC  & £299.88 for 24 “up to” 192 FLAC.

Looks like you get HD quality TV/Film for less money than MP3 quality music. Maybe thats why I'm not a web-streamer 

That’s fine if you want to watch endless crap, rather than having access to a vast choice of music. Anyway, none of this is helping the OP...

hungryhalibut posted:

Well, I can only go on my experience but I’ve downloaded probably 500 albums from Qobuz and they have all been fine. I’ve also bought from High Res Audio, Bandcamp and direct from record companies. Other than a few metadata issues the sound quality has been what I’d expect. I see no point in buying a CD and then ripping it and storing it in the loft, never to be looked at again. It’s a waste of plastic if nothing else. 

Most of the CDs I buy these days are pre loved (and I have not had one issue with them), so I am recycling rather than wasting plastic! I also have the physical format, should anything awful happen with electronic storage/backup. Even if the album concerned is available via a download, I save considerably by buying the CD online and ripping. But as I have already mentioned many of the albums I buy these days are only available on CD.

It is inevitable that music material will continue to transition from physical form to electronic files and music will be downloaded more and more. But while CD bargains exist……..

Timmo1341 posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Well, I can only go on my experience but I’ve downloaded probably 500 albums from Qobuz and they have all been fine. I’ve also bought from High Res Audio, Bandcamp and direct from record companies. Other than a few metadata issues the sound quality has been what I’d expect. I see no point in buying a CD and then ripping it and storing it in the loft, never to be looked at again. It’s a waste of plastic if nothing else. 

Fine, if cost is of no concern...

This doesn't align with my experience, so I suspect it depends on genre.  I have a "think about buying" list and your post prompted me to compare the first 5 (2 classical, 2 folk, 1 jazz) albums on my list none of which were on special offer.  All were cheaper as (CD quality) downloads, from Qobuz, Bandcamp and Linn, than buying the physical discs from the Big River.  The difference is often just a few pounds but, in one case, the download is 40% cheaper.

The one area where CDs have a big advantage is buying second hand, but apart from the obvious potential problems with damage on used discs, I worry that the previous owner may have ripped the disc and then sold it and my moral scruples tend to kick in.

Roger

Peakman posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Well, I can only go on my experience but I’ve downloaded probably 500 albums from Qobuz and they have all been fine. I’ve also bought from High Res Audio, Bandcamp and direct from record companies. Other than a few metadata issues the sound quality has been what I’d expect. I see no point in buying a CD and then ripping it and storing it in the loft, never to be looked at again. It’s a waste of plastic if nothing else. 

Fine, if cost is of no concern...

This doesn't align with my experience, so I suspect it depends on genre.  I have a "think about buying" list and your post prompted me to compare the first 5 (2 classical, 2 folk, 1 jazz) albums on my list none of which were on special offer.  All were cheaper as (CD quality) downloads, from Qobuz, Bandcamp and Linn, than buying the physical discs from the Big River.  The difference is often just a few pounds but, in one case, the download is 40% cheaper.

The one area where CDs have a big advantage is buying second hand, but apart from the obvious potential problems with damage on used discs, I worry that the previous owner may have ripped the disc and then sold it and my moral scruples tend to kick in.

Roger

I’d say it’s more likely that they ditched the CDs in favour if a Spotify or Apple Music subscription and would, if they had kept the CDs, be paying for their music twice in effect. The majority of people do not rip CDs, or even own a device that is capable of doing it.