ATC scm11 loudspeaker hype

Not aware of much hype.. if anything generally I think ATC for the domestic market are understated as they tend to focus on the industrial market.

ATCs performance are not everyone’s cup of tea.. they are neutral and uncoloured, and this can render some music mixes quite starkly.. but if it is this clarity and transparency you are after I think ATCs are ideally suited.. but be warned some of your music might sound different.. you will get no sugar coating from them.. but it will draw you in more to what was originally there..

BTW stands are crucial with the ATCs.. try and listen with open frame stands.. you will get less Hf smearing (a fault on so many floor standers) and a tighter bass. But setup right they are one of the most engaging manufacturer of speakers I have ever heard... All my old ATCs have been bought from me by my musician friends.. could be coincidence.. but interesting.

I demo'd a pair quite recently against ProAc Tablette Signatures and PMC Twenty 5.21's as a possible replacement for my Dynaudios. I didn't like them for the same reason as Alba1321 said. I think you have to get them home to judge for yourself against your AE's. Its the only way as tastes vary so much.

Alba1320 posted:

Plenty seem to like them, but not me - clean, detailed, impressive hi-fi, but musically unengaging, to my ears.

However, it doesn't matter what I, or anyone else thinks; only you can decide if they're right for you.

They do not seem to be difficult to drive, even if they are slightly below 'average' sensitivity; the manufacturer specifically states 'Flat impedance curve allowing easy load for amplifiers'.

"musically unengaging" That's not very naim really and is the one of the main reasons I chose my nait amplifier against others such others like cyrus.

My AEs are fast energetic speakers for their size and are very musically engaging, they match really well with the naim sound from my integrated. Don't know whether to bother with the audition now.

I use scm11 on the end of a uniti nova... love em. Had gb1i previously and while the bass is not as deep it’s tight and they communicate the music far better. Mid range is lovely  and the their  own tweeter is a peach 

the nova has no problem driving them in my 4 x 3.5 room. Mid 30’svolume is plenty loud enough and I don’t feel short changed coming from atc own amp previously. 

I use heavy atacama stands but with atacama gel  pads on top which frees up the bass and makes them more open than bluetack. 

Worth a listen imho but make sure they are run in... very tight and flat sounding otherwise 

Yeah absolutely worth an audition.. when set up right they are one of the most engaging speakers out there in my opinion... allows the emotion and musical vibe to flow .. without imparting it’s own distorted version of it. As Hi-Fi Dog says ensure well run in.. they do take a very long time from new.. not quite sure why... but I guess the best things come to those who wait.

It seems that here in the US the few ATC dealers recommend the active versions of the these speakers feeling that there is a substantial improvement in SQ. Don’t know if you are considering that option

A couple of years ago I auditioned the SCM11 against the SCM7 and found the latter preferable. Despite the SCM11 being better in some ways, I found the SCM7 more engaging. As everyone else says, this is an entirely subjective decision: not only is it your system and your room, but also your ears, and your tastes and listening priorities. All that aside, I haven’t found that ATC speakers favour any particular musical genre. What I would say is that they are very revealing. Garbage in, garbage out, etc. I’m now running a 552 with a 250DR, and the SCM7s are more than up to the challenge.

Speaking of hype, one speaker that gets a lot of rave reviews around here is the ProAc Tablette 10, and its newer sibling, the Tablette 10 Signature. If I were auditioning speakers again, I would definitely add the Signature to my list. Anyway, do let us know how you get on.

Before parting with cash you should try to Audition some dynaudio 

also made to be used in the studio... like ATC 

seems to be a natural match with Naim amplifiers to my ears... 

I auditioned the SCM19 on a SN2 and agree with Alba1320's assessment. Clean, precise, and clinical. You may find yourself reaching for a sweater as you listen. Not the easiest speakers to drive, the 11s you're interested in have a recommended power rating from 75-300 watts. The XS2 is 70 watts so I'd say you're starting from a nearly compromised position to begin with for amplification. OTOH, an audition costs little other than mileage to and from the dealer and there's a chance the ATCs will gel with your room. Why not give it a go and find out for yourself? You'll gain a bit of wisdom along the way.

I think it's a matter of perspective. I was comparing the ATC's to 3 very good pairs of speakers when I demo'd them but against "lesser" products I expect I'd have been raving about them. To my ears they sounded well-balanced, clinical and dry. Don't get me wrong - they're very good but I preferred the others I tried. By all accounts, ATC's are very fussy about stands and isolation as others on this Forum have commented in previous threads.

The ProAcs are a lovely little speaker - tons of PRAT and particularly good with vocals and mid-range I thought but a bit short on bass which is down to their size. Of the 2 (ATC SCM-11 and Tablette Sig 10), I would have walked away with the ProAcs. However, it was the PMC's I really liked but then again, they were £700 more.

There are some dealers selling ex-demo ones at around £1600 (Twenty-5.21), if you can audition these I would totally urge you to - great speaker IMHO only bettered by Dynaudio but they would really need to be driven hard.

Ultimately it's a home demo - find a dealer which handles a few brands who will let you home trial some over the course of a week. 

Reading this and other speaker threads it occurs to me that people are using different types of speaker as a sort of ‘end stop’ graphic equaliser...

“I haven’t found that ATC speakers favour any particular musical genre. What I would say is that they are very revealing. Garbage in, garbage out, etc.“

This. Very much this. ie: Hifi.

True, though the curved cabinet ATCs appear  ever so slightly more forgiving.. I suspect down to the different tweeter. The newer ATCs also appear slightly warmer and as some have said on the forum some of the larger to ATCs are too bass strong for smaller rooms.. though so auditioning is crucial, though shouldn’t be an issue with the new 11s, and certain types of stands can be used to accentuate frequency performance to match room coupling....  The other thing about ATCs I notice are the transients and dynamics.. really noticeable after having heard many other speakers...  one of the only speakers I have heard that appear faster than the ATCs are the Russell K series.. but perhaps they are simply too fast for my tastes... but speed equates to great PRaT so may be also worth an audition.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

speed equates to great PRaT 

I agree. I've auditioned speakers with great speed, PRaT, and musicality that lacked overall tonal balance in my room. Examples being:

1) Ovator S400 (incredible bass, too mid forward, too little treble),

2) Devore Super 8 (incredible mids and highs, lacking bass presence),

3) Linn Majik Isobariks (heavy bass end, nice mid clarity, treble shy) yet somehow magically musical.

In my mind, the deal with ATCs has nothing to do with speed, PRaT, or musicality, rather tonal balance. They don't dig deep enough on the bottom end and kind of cry out for a sub to give that final sense of warmth or wetness that makes you feel you're listening relaxed at home and not working in front of a mixing board.

Hmmm. In my experience, if there’s bass, you get it. If there isn’t, you don’t.

Examples:

Jimmy Page’s remixes of the LED Zep back catalogue. No bass.

Larry Carlton ‘Deep Into It’ - bag loads of the stuff...

Joerand - I guess we are all different - its the emotion that oozes from the ATCs that endears me to them - they are the only speaker I have listened to that have made my eyes well up  (and I was sober) listening to certain albeit vocal tracks ie

1)  Sandy Denny - The Northstar Grassman and the Ravens sung live at the Paris Theatre (not a particularly hifi recording)

2)  Miserere mei Deus, motet for Chorus - sung by the Tallis Scholars

3)  Procession - sung by the Choir of Canterbury Cathedral 

I find vocals - especially choral vocals something that requires great neutrality - i have often used as a musical reference when comparing audio equipment as you can perhaps notice  from some of my posts over the years. The ATCs  do provide a lovely relatively smear free high end and mid transition, essential for voices for me, and a have a lovely natural rather than soupy warmth to add atmosphere and feel. To me this was the issue with PMC twenty5 series - choral vocals just sounded (to me)  - well artificial. 

But yes they attenuate a lot at the very low frequencies (the 19 for example)  - not much below 35Hz - but again this is room dependent.

They are  a great speaker for timing and pace - and with the right music really want to make you move or dance to the music, or some tracks you simply feel breathless at the end - as the pace and suspense slows your breathing as you get so engaged. I think this is speed and and unsmeared transients that help provide this. Another good example here is an EDM track

4)  deadmau5 - sofi needs a ladder

There is a huge bass energy - watch those drivers and feel the energy - but there is also a fascinating timing interplay in the track which needs tight accurate bass - otherwise it sounds a mess - the ATC 19s on my 250 do this with ease - I have heard this track on other speaker setups - including some very large speakers fed by a Statement - and well it has sometimes sounded a mess...

So to my mind not so much tonal balance - but lack of certain distortions in various forms that allows you  simply to get closer to the music.

Thank you all, getting a lot of good feedback on the ATCs and other brands.

So far I thinking of looking more into PMCs or possibly dynaudio.

I see the dynaudio special forty have recently won what hi fi awards 2018.

I am hearing a lot of "cold clinical and weak bass" from the ATC scm11s and that definitely not my cup of tea.

Has anyone had any experience of Acoustic energy standmounters?

‘I am hearing a lot of "cold clinical and weak bass’

not in my room with a nova...

I still have a pair of active AE22 in the studio. 

The smaller ATC:s (and others like the AE22 or Naim SBL or LS3/5A or Linn Kan) are sealed-boxes which gives you a tight, fast and tuneful bass. The cut-off frequency is higher but the bass falls-off much slower. Compared to boxes that use a port to play games with the acoustic resistance around the resonant frequency. I have always prefered sealed-box bass but they are harder to find on the market so I guess I’m in the minority :-)  To be more fair very good designers actually do a great job hiding the ported-bass sound.

hifi-dog posted:

‘I am hearing a lot of "cold clinical and weak bass’

not in my room with a nova...

Indeed not sure you can attribute such a description with ATC speakers, and a few have said including me they are one of the more emotional speakers out there  - fascinating...in fact a few who have had issues such as with the SCM40s is that there is too much bass!!! (for smaller rooms).

Oh well - I guess enough has been said - its really down to auditioning. I remember really enjoying a  Nait XS2 with a pair of 11s, yes slightly soft but had a lovely bounce and warm presentation.

jlarsson posted:

I still have a pair of active AE22 in the studio. 

 

How would you describe the sound of your AE22s? , when compared to your ATCs?

I think the my AE reference 1s share the same vifa ring radiator tweeter. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

hifi-dog posted:

‘I am hearing a lot of "cold clinical and weak bass’

not in my room with a nova...

Indeed not sure you can attribute such a description with ATC speakers, and a few have said including me they are one of the more emotional speakers out there  - fascinating...in fact a few who have had issues such as with the SCM40s is that there is too much bass!!! (for smaller rooms).

Oh well - I guess enough has been said - its really down to auditioning. I remember really enjoying a  Nait XS2 with a pair of 11s, yes slightly soft but had a lovely bounce and warm presentation.

totally agree Simon - i have several pairs of ATC's then flirted with pmc and they sounded slow in comparison so now back with scm11 and they are brill

I have the SCM11 and to my ears they are wonderfully balanced speakers. Yes you’re never going to achieve earth shattering bass from them as they are a very neutral speaker. What I absolutely love about them is their bass speed and clarity. Vocals and guitar strings are particularly impressive.

It is also essential that the correct type of stands are used too as they can sound quite poor on certain types of stands.

However as mentioned above an audition is highly recommended as they won’t suit everyone.

Mine are currently driven with a NAP200. However I’ll most probably go to a 250.2 at some point as I think the extra grunt that the 250.2 provides over the 200 would suit the ATC’s very nicely.

Ian.

Just to put a spanner in the works..... sorry chaps.

I really like the ATC speakers, the little 7 and the 11, VERY MUCH . But they can sound a touch cold and calculating. I've moved my love over to PMC speakers which have an equally great sound, but, to my cloth ears, are a bit more warmer and natural.

My penny 'orth

eazyryder posted:

jlarsson posted:

I still have a pair of active AE22 in the studio. 

 

How would you describe the sound of your AE22s? , when compared to your ATCs?

I think the my AE reference 1s share the same vifa ring radiator tweeter. 

The AE22 was marketed as the Yamaha NS10 for grown-ups. It doesnt have the colorations of the NS10 but sound really fast and detailed with very low smearing. I have found it easy to get mixes with the AE22 that translate very well to various playback chains. It does have the same midrange-peak as the NS10 but I wrote a plugin that neutralize to a flat response.

I’ve tried the AE22 behind the 252 but it is to much of a mixing-monitor - didnt like the result. May have been electrical misnatch also.

Driving a pair of SCM19's on a SN2. Love them. Also auditioned the 11's but chose the 19's cause of the wider presentation. I would personally go for the SCM 7 instead of 11. Astonishing wide field of music out of these magical small boxes. 

I am thinking of upgrading to SCM20ASL with a Benchmark DAC3 DX. Curious how that will sound although I love the SN2.