Starting from scratch

Ardbeg10y posted:

What’s in a Naim posted:

Stupid question: Bearing in mind that all devices in my household are on WiFi, why would that be better than a good router?

In my case we live with 6 in a house and a cat. I work mostly from home so we have frequently the situation that my older kids watch netflix, some friends enter the building too playing games and I need to do work (and stream music too). Thats pretty a load for wireless only. I would kill domestic peace by downloading an Oracle fix or so.

That would do it, yeah ????

luckily, there’s just two here, with most of the load going through a PS4 and two iPhones. So that’s quite doable. For some reason I have to reset the WiFi amplifier/extender once every two months or so, but that’s about it.

Gazza posted:

Is there no way you could run an Ethernet cable? I paid £140 for the guy that fits and services our house alarm to run a cable externally from the rear of the house around to the front through plastic conduit. It rather neatly just popped in to our front room through an air brick (saved drilling walls), connects to a Cisco switch and then streamer.

What’s in a Naim posted:

BLACKMASS posted:

I’m sure I’ve got the wrong end of the stick but couldn’t you use Wifi ‘Smart’ plugs?

If you’re referring to those devices that plug into a wall socket to send a WiFi signal from A to B;  that would be detrimental to sound quality, because of the absence of null current (hope I said this right). Suffice it to say I was rather convincingly advised no to go that path.

Yes those are the ones I meant.

 Interesting. I haven’t read anything about them having a detrimental effect on the sound. I’m in a similar position to yourself so I’ll be following this thread with interest.  

I would start with an Allo Digi One (~$200) + a solid dac. Maybe a s/h naim dac (~$1800 usd).

Use Google Mesh to get over the ethernet issue.

So far I’ve not come up with a solution that isn’t expensive, complicated and/or ugly. But I have not given up on the idea altogether. It’s just that a good WiFi solution would be soo much easier.

MangoMonkey posted:

I would start with an Allo Digi One (~$200) + a solid dac. Maybe a s/h naim dac (~$1800 usd).

Use Google Mesh to get over the ethernet issue.

Thank you,

Interesting suggestion. Never heard of that, but it’s a pretty flexible solution. The transport is cheap and the DAC can always be used in another setup. I’m definitely going to give this some thought.

A NAC-N272 preamp and streamer will make your power amp sing. It'll knock spot's off the 122x and give you a streamer, DAC + iradio. My previous pre power was the same as yours. I did audition the combination and was very impressed. The 272 will happily power a 250 or 300 power amp if the upgrade bug kicks in. Rich 

For that kind of money  (€ 4600,- is over 50% more then I intend to spend) it will have to be pretty convincing! Bear in mind that I’m using a Flatcap with my amp, which makes it an altogether different beast. But I’ll give it a try if I get the chance. Who knows...

I have a CXN v1 and for the money (1,000 €) is good, but my main source is vinyl.

And please, do not use it via Wi-Fi.

A second hand Unitiserve and the Naim Ndac could be in budget if your lucky in finding them.    The Unitiserve needs an internet connection, but only for control by another wifi device and for data look up when ripping. This could easily be a small separate wifi job connected by a short Ethernet cable to the Unitiserve - which can connect to the Ndac with a standard BNC digital cable.

Then sell your cd5xs for funds towards more CDs to rip.

UPDATE!

I found a way to run a LAN cable from my modem/router to my stereo! BUT: there’s a catch.

Turns out there’s an old (disconnected) water pipe running under my house just about exactly between my modem and my stereo. Now, I already succeeded in running a 2 mm. nylon string through it, so the next step is pulling a network cable through. The inner diameter of this pipe is 14mm.

Since I had to make a hole in the wall, this is obviously  not something I want to do more often. Therefore, I’m looking for the best cable for this specific situation: It can’t be too thick, and it should be as “bendy” as possible (not rigid), but also as future-proof as possible (CAT 6 or 7?), and as well-shielded as possible within these constraint. I’m not sure if shielding is a major concern here, because my modem is not grounded, so I don’t see how shielding could work in this case. 

So, what cable would you use in this case?

You don,t mention how long a run of cable would be needed. I presume it’s a reasonable length, so would go for something like Audioquest Forest from Router to switch, and then something like Melco or another Audioquest like CInammon or Vodka.

Gazza posted:

You don,t mention how long a run of cable would be needed. I presume it’s a reasonable length, so would go for something like Audioquest Forest from Router to switch, and then something like Melco or another Audioquest like CInammon or Vodka.

My bad. We’re talking about 15-20 meters here.

And it just goes to show I’m a complete n00b, because I never knew there were specialized audio LAN cables.  I was expecting something along the lines of CAT6, stranded UTP, something like that. But yeah, I’ll check it out.

thanks for the advice

For that length just look on line amazon or blue Jean cables, connect to an Ethernet switch. The opinion on the forum is it’s the last length between Hifi and switch that matters for sound quality and paying a bit more for something like AQ or Melco is worth experimenting with.

Thank you for your reply.

i was just reading about audiophile LAN cables, and there doesn’t seem to be much consensus on its merits. But even IF I went down that path there are still two major problems.

Firstly, it’s hard to find info about the rigidity of these cables, which is a big factor in this case, because at the end of the day I still have to pull it through 15 meters of 14mm. pipe.

Secondly, since I have to run it through aforementioned pipe, I have to cut off at least one connector (don’t think RJ45 comes under 14 mm.). So pinching a connector back on is probably going to compromise the construction/shielding of such a cable.

Now, I’m not saying audiophile LAN cables are without merit (I just don’t know), it’s just that in this particular case It’s too much of a long shot. 

I DO agree with your statement that the last length between hifi and switch is where it’s at: I heard a pretty convincing demonstration the other day of a €60,- piece of glass fiber cable between a switch and a streamer that effectively decoupled the streamer from electric noise. And there’s also the LAN noise isolator (by Pink Faun) that I can borrow from a friend.

So yeah: atm I’m inclined to find the most supple, thinnest, but still shielded CAT 6a LAN cable, pinch a couple of metal connectors on, and experiment with noise isolation between streamer and switch (when I finally have a streamer).

To be continued

Best of luck and let us know how you get on.

It might take a while, but I will!

Thanks

Higher spec cables (Cat 6 or 7) and shielded cables are often thicker and stiffer, so regular Cat5e is probably going to be the easiest to pull through. The plug might be the most difficult bit, so you may need to use unterminated cable.  I wouldn’t worry too much about sheilding, chances are you don’t need it, and you might even get some sheilding from the metal pipe you’re using. Also, watch out for tight bends. Manufacturers should be able to tell you the minimum bend radius for any cable. 

I’ve used fibre instead of copper Ethernet for a couple of installations, which was nice and thin and easier to run through awkward routes. 

Thanks,

Since this turned out to be a bit of an operation, I want to make this somewhat future-proof. So in my simple mind CAT 6a (or 7, but that’s a bit of a stretch) is preferable. So I’m now trying to find out if there are any CAT 6/7 cables that are thin and supple enough for my situation. But it might turn out that I’ll have to take your advice.

I’ve been thinking about fiber too, but since I have no idea what twists and turns I’m going to encounter I’m very hesitant. I got the nylon rope I’m going to use to pull the LAN cable through through the water pipe by sucking it up with a 3000W industrial vacuum cleaner. Now, for a piece of string, that was no problem. But this doesn’t tell me anything about what’s under the ground in terms of twists and turns. With that in mind, could you still recommend fiber? Honest question.

I certainly found fibre easier to run than Cat5/6, although that wasn’t my main reason for choosing it. Of course, you will need some sort of converter at each end - I find switches with SFPs work well. 

Wow, okay... that changes things a bit.

One last question, if I may be so bold: if you knew you were going to encounter, let’s say, two 90° angles, would you still be confident that this is doable?

Theres a minimum bend radius on fibre so you will have to check that against where you want to run it. Not all fibre is the same so you need to be aware.

Thanks, 

therein lies the problem: the water pipe is poured into the foundation of my house. One end is copper piping, the other end is tylene hose. I have no idea wat bends and twist are under my feet. The string I already ran trough this does need a bit of force to pull through, but it’s not extreme. So I think there are a few bends but nothing too extreme. At one point it does have to come up through the floor though, so I expect at least one (more or less) right angle there.