Core, Innuos or NAS?

This topic appears confusing despite all comments being correct - the problem is that each one focuses on aspects that are more relevant for the person commenting. Drawing up the superset of these aspects and then defining a decision logic  (which aspect is more important for the person deciding) seems to me the logical approach. 

Here would be this list with my prioritization for a server solution:

1. Completely silent (fanless + SSD)

2. Supports incremental backup 

3. Allows to view shares in explorer 

4. runs Roon Server

5. Can run minim server 

6. Dedicated Ethernet port 

7. Has metadata editing capability via web app

8. Integrated ripping 

The above prioritization is dictated by preferences (e.g. metadata capabilities for classical music in minim server are unmatched) as well as constraints (cannot run long Ethernet cables and thus a typical NAS is not an option for me).

I am not aware of a currently available solution that meets my criteria: 

- my QNAP NAS is noisy. The 251+ QNAP fanless NAS lacks dedicated Ethernet port; I read about a very strong new silent QNAP NAS Model but not sure when it will be available and whether it will support a “virtual switch” to emulate a dedicated Ethernet port

- Melco: the affordable models are not SSD based and sound apparently is more tweaked to Twonky server than minim (Darke Bear on another thread)

- INNUOS: promising, have to check the MK3 models which were not available till recently. But does not run minim and have to content with their limited metadata options like the Core

- Small green Computer options: a real candidate for me. Only lacks dedicated Ethernet port

- Antipodes: too expensive 

- NAIM Core: very proprietary metadata management

- SOTM SMS-200 or similar in minim server mode off an attached USB disk: this is what i use now but no real backup management 

Comments welcome 

Given that quite long and specific list of requirements, I think the chances that you’ll ever find a proprietary divice that ticks every box is pretty much non-existent. Better to choose computer, drive, CD drive, ripping and editing software, server, switch etc. of your choice, stick them in a cupboard somewhere, and you’re done. Probably cheaper as well. 

Then when you change your mind, you can change any component you want. 

I generally agree with your list and the order.

I manage the "completely silent" aspect by putting my server in a spot remote from my living room. When I first moved from a direct connection of UServe to Naim Dac, to networked UPnP music, I decided to keep all moving part devices and all blinking light devices (router, etc) out of the living room. Ran Cat5e in the wall with an outlet behind my Fraim. So where I listen, effectively, I meet your most important criterion.

Given that my nas is a bit old to run Roon as fast as I wanted, I opted to add a box to my little server rack and run Roon from a fanless NUC with a little ssd in it.  It's really responsive.

Thanks both for the comments. Indeed the list is long and probably no solution that meets all criteria exists or is likely to exist - but that is where prioritization comes into play.

Btw, I saw today the MK3 INNUOS at our local annual hi-fi show and will try one of them soon. As I said, SonicOrbiter by Small Green Computer seems to tick almost all boxes and is the other good alternative 

DrPo posted:

Thanks both for the comments. Indeed the list is long and probably no solution that meets all criteria exists or is likely to exist - but that is where prioritization comes into play.

Btw, I saw today the MK3 INNUOS at our local annual hi-fi show and will try one of them soon. As I said, SonicOrbiter by Small Green Computer seems to tick almost all boxes and is the other good alternative 

I think the new Innuos servers will be interesting for anyone who doesn’t run a (Naim) streamer, as they will have an SPDIF output. In addition to being a ripper/store/server, they have Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, iRadio and Roon. That leaves plenty of cash in your piggy bank for a DAC. 

ChrisSU posted:

I think the new Innuos servers will be interesting for anyone who doesn’t run a (Naim) streamer, as they will have an SPDIF output. In addition to being a ripper/store/server, they have Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, iRadio and Roon. That leaves plenty of cash in your piggy bank for a DAC. 

I see it the other way round - they (at least, the models I’ve read about) have always been of iterest to people with non-Naim DACs (and Naim V1), being able to use their internal renderer and feed the DAC directly.

What an SPDIF output will enable is input to nDAC, or even to the DAC section of a Naim streamer enabling direct comparison of the Innuos’s renderer against that of the streamer, and ultimate selection of the best.

ChrisSU posted:

DrPo posted:

Thanks both for the comments. Indeed the list is long and probably no solution that meets all criteria exists or is likely to exist - but that is where prioritization comes into play.

Btw, I saw today the MK3 INNUOS at our local annual hi-fi show and will try one of them soon. As I said, SonicOrbiter by Small Green Computer seems to tick almost all boxes and is the other good alternative 

I think the new Innuos servers will be interesting for anyone who doesn’t run a (Naim) streamer, as they will have an SPDIF output. In addition to being a ripper/store/server, they have Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify, iRadio and Roon. That leaves plenty of cash in your piggy bank for a DAC. 

I understand that only the Innuos Zen mini has a S/PDIF electrical output. The Zen and the Zenith do not seem to have S/PDIF outputs.

DrPo posted:

This topic appears confusing despite all comments being correct - the problem is that each one focuses on aspects that are more relevant for the person commenting. Drawing up the superset of these aspects and then defining a decision logic  (which aspect is more important for the person deciding) seems to me the logical approach. 

Here would be this list with my prioritization for a server solution:

1. Completely silent (fanless + SSD)

2. Supports incremental backup 

3. Allows to view shares in explorer 

4. runs Roon Server

5. Can run minim server 

6. Dedicated Ethernet port 

7. Has metadata editing capability via web app

8. Integrated ripping 

The above prioritization is dictated by preferences (e.g. metadata capabilities for classical music in minim server are unmatched) as well as constraints (cannot run long Ethernet cables and thus a typical NAS is not an option for me).

I am not aware of a currently available solution that meets my criteria: 

- my QNAP NAS is noisy. The 251+ QNAP fanless NAS lacks dedicated Ethernet port; I read about a very strong new silent QNAP NAS Model but not sure when it will be available and whether it will support a “virtual switch” to emulate a dedicated Ethernet port

- Melco: the affordable models are not SSD based and sound apparently is more tweaked to Twonky server than minim (Darke Bear on another thread)

- INNUOS: promising, have to check the MK3 models which were not available till recently. But does not run minim and have to content with their limited metadata options like the Core

- Small green Computer options: a real candidate for me. Only lacks dedicated Ethernet port

- Antipodes: too expensive 

- NAIM Core: very proprietary metadata management

- SOTM SMS-200 or similar in minim server mode off an attached USB disk: this is what i use now but no real backup management 

Comments welcome

Here is my take on 1.- 8.:

1. Fanless, headless, completely silent are obvious requirements. Every fitPC device (among others) fulfills them.

2. rsync is platform independent and supports incremental backup. There is no reason to look elsewhere, in my view.

3. Not  a priority but very easy to fulfill.

4. Not a priority but easy to fulfill.

5. Mandatory and easy to fulfill.

6. Easy to fulfill

7. Not a priority, metadata editing is best done on a laptop or desktop and before the data is sent to a music server.

8. Not a priority, ripping CDs (DVDs, bluray disks, etc.) and serving music files are completely different concerns and should be done on different devices.

Just my two cents, of course. But I am convinced that mixing up CD ripping, metadata editing and music serving concerns is a bad idea!

DrPo posted:

This topic appears confusing despite all comments being correct - the problem is that each one focuses on aspects that are more relevant for the person commenting. Drawing up the superset of these aspects and then defining a decision logic  (which aspect is more important for the person deciding) seems to me the logical approach. 

Here would be this list with my prioritization for a server solution:

1. Completely silent (fanless + SSD)

2. Supports incremental backup 

3. Allows to view shares in explorer 

4. runs Roon Server

5. Can run minim server 

6. Dedicated Ethernet port 

7. Has metadata editing capability via web app

8. Integrated ripping 

The above prioritization is dictated by preferences (e.g. metadata capabilities for classical music in minim server are unmatched) as well as constraints (cannot run long Ethernet cables and thus a typical NAS is not an option for me).

I am not aware of a currently available solution that meets my criteria: 

- my QNAP NAS is noisy. The 251+ QNAP fanless NAS lacks dedicated Ethernet port; I read about a very strong new silent QNAP NAS Model but not sure when it will be available and whether it will support a “virtual switch” to emulate a dedicated Ethernet port

- Melco: the affordable models are not SSD based and sound apparently is more tweaked to Twonky server than minim (Darke Bear on another thread)

- INNUOS: promising, have to check the MK3 models which were not available till recently. But does not run minim and have to content with their limited metadata options like the Core

- Small green Computer options: a real candidate for me. Only lacks dedicated Ethernet port

- Antipodes: too expensive 

- NAIM Core: very proprietary metadata management

- SOTM SMS-200 or similar in minim server mode off an attached USB disk: this is what i use now but no real backup management 

Comments welcome

Many contributors to Computer Audiophile have reported very good results in terms of sound quality by runnig AudioLinux on certain NUC devices. A NUC with AL might check all your requirements apart perhaps from 6.

Sadly I don`t manage to follow all of your terminology 

Innuos is not that pricey, but I don`t need the streaming option (NDX2). Melco cost a lot and should work very well for that cost. 

I already have the Synology with two Western Red 3T discs. Since I struggle to go the Minimroute, what if I put focus onto Asset ( betters the Mediaserver?) and purchase a simple, but ok Qnap NAS. Then move one of the WR 3T discs into it?

I would then have the Qnap (Asset) for music storage and Synology (mediaserver) for pictures etc. This would as far as I can see be a low cost "next step"?

S

Is there an alternative to the innuos products, but with replaceable hdd drive(s)? I’d like to simply slot in the drives i use in my synology into the new device. Ideally dual drive for back-up but could solve this using an external USB. 

ChetBaker posted:

Is there an alternative to the innuos products, but with replaceable hdd drive(s)? I’d like to simply slot in the drives i use in my synology into the new device. Ideally dual drive for back-up but could solve this using an external USB. 

Two drives in the same enclosure is hardly a robust backup. I prefer to use single drive devices, with one working as backup to the other. 

Ok thanks Chrissu - so basically what i’d be looking for is a cheaper alternative to the core. Ripping/hdd slot/capability to store non-music files. A synology with a discdrive would do the trick :-). 

Yes, although the drive would run off your computer rather than off the Synology NAS (assuming you mean a CD drive for ripping). 

Chris, I took your advice of a while back.....my back ups are now in different rooms.

nbpf posted:

Many contributors to Computer Audiophile have reported very good results in terms of sound quality by runnig AudioLinux on certain NUC devices. A NUC with AL might check all your requirements apart perhaps from 6.

hi NBPF,  thanks for the feedback. For the time being i am quite content with my SOTM SMS-200 running minim server. For completeness's sake I note that SmallGreen Comuter's top models like AP also have two Ethernet port and support bridging mode

Gazza posted:

Chris, I took your advice of a while back.....my back ups are now in different rooms.

Next step.....take another backup and stick it in your mate's house in case yours burns down