Downgrading firmware Naim Nova

Me too of happened, already contact naim support and they haven't to provide 2.3.8574 firmware for my downgrade. I am deep to search all related posts for how can download the pervious firmware. Unfortunately, no body to help and share the firmware for my fix it. 

Just a question from my side: why do you want to downgrade to the older firmware?

At first I was very happy with the first firmware but I would like to try the last one (2.6.1) but I didn't need the new functionality.

I have set new cables (main and speaker) and want to go back to oldest firmware (the newer one have an too much bass response).

At the price of a Nova, it such a shame to have no response and no possibility to go back with firmware reales.

If someone have the file could it send it ?

Klout10 posted:

Just a question from my side: why do you want to downgrade to the older firmware?

The older firmware have an easier presentation, more airy for me whereas the new one have an emphasied bottom. The change of main and speaker cable have improved the SQ in all way and also in bass response.

Alex57 - please note that Naim is currently closed for the Christmas and New Year holiday.  I suggest you try to make contact again once they have returned.

Bear in mind that Naim may well be very reluctant to downgrade fw due to license agreements and the fact that any new or improved functionality is then lost and further support becomes very difficult.

Totally agreed your feedback, why can't to provide older firmware to downgrade? i am discussed with naim support around 2 weeks, but still not provide older firmware for fix it. 

Hi Richard, this is Paul. Naim support is haven't to provide older firmware for me and just told me to find our dealer. But dealer said not firmware to provided to me and just asked me to contact naim support directly. How can i doing now? Can you help me to inform naim support again for our issue? 

Paul, please see my post above.  I will make some enquiries when everyone is back at the factory next week.

Thank You, Richard. I really really hope you can contact naim support to provide the older firmware to us to fix. 

Richard Dane posted:

Paul, please see my post above.  I will make some enquiries when everyone is back at the factory next week.

A few of us reverted to the older firmware as we preferred it in the context of our own systems sonically.

In my communications with Naim support I did ask if anyone else wanted to revert, then would it simplify things for them if other forum members distributed it - the response was that they wanted to hear from other users directly as bypassing support would not allow them to know the numbers wanting to go back to the older one or why.

From my perspective the sound is paramount, but with various licensed embedded technologies I guess that at some stage these could cease to work if there are changes to various APIs/methods of remote access to services as we see from time to time with 3rd parties when they overhaul their systems either for the sake of it or for security.

The fundamental problem, as we've seen evidenced by several threads, is that firmware updates can have significant and tangible effects of the sonic character of the device.  

I think it would be entirely fair to say that the majority of posters preferred the newer firmwares, especially the older streamers, which many people felt were given a fantastic sound quality boost.

Some sonic changes might be introduced simply by changes to the streamer's operating system affecting audio processing in subtle ways, other sonic changes may be deliberately engineered enhancements directly involving the audio stream processing.

Now while Naim's intention will be to maintain or enhance the audio quality we cannot deny it simply won't be a positive change for all users with widely differing setups.

Using an analogy, if I tried a new interconnect and it worked wonders I'd want it, if it had no effect I'd probably be happy with what I had or accept it if I was given it for free, if it made things worse in the context of my own system I certainly wouldn't buy it, and probably wouldn't even want it for free.  Although this is an analogy I think support need to understand that some firmware updates are big changes sonically and could render a user completely unhappy with the product as it no longer provides the same enjoyment - small numbers perhaps, but still customers who might choose to go elsewhere in the future if they're unhappy with the solution offered.

Consequently in this modern digital age a company like Naim needs to be receptive to the fact that some users might not like new firmware sonically and allow them to revert to what they had.  As users we would need to accept that old firmware would continue to function but any future enhancements would not be added/supported, and some internet based services beyond Naim's direct control might cease to work as well if at all.

The simplest thing would be to have the older firmware archived on the support site for those who want to go back, or provided to dealers to do so for owners.  Only exceptionally then might someone need to contact Naim directly for help.

Perhaps you could elaborate on the licensing problems at some stage, though I'd imagine they're not insurmountable as some people probably never apply updates even if prompted (and thank heavens we can decline them).

Richard Dane posted:

Alex57 - please note that Naim is currently closed for the Christmas and New Year holiday.  I suggest you try to make contact again once they have returned.

We are far too accustomed to 24/7 services, and I think it's fantastic Naim still has closures for Christmas/New year and I think late summer - this is great for the workers and their families.

I have been working over the weekend, yesterday/overnight and will be again this evening - I've done these patterns for decades on and off, and resent it more and more as I get older as I lose important time with the children/family in general.

Suspect I'd be in the minority but I'd love to go back to more limited Sunday trading - not on religious grounds but without those 'retail opportunities' which we accept and avail ourselves of, I think we'd be far more likely to have some decent downtime with family/friends, perhaps just doing nothing at all.

Hi Alley Cat and Richard, happy new year! I am totally agreed your replied. Naim is provide the older firmware to customer in case after upgraded, then happened SQ issue. I am already contact to naim 1 month ago for firmware issue. Unfortunately, naim just answered me for no older firmware to provided and just asked me to contact the dealer only. But i think is not to provide to us instead of no older firmware. Richard, please try your best to contact naim support to provide the older firmware for my further downgrade my atom. 

 

 

Alley Cat posted:

Richard Dane posted:

Alex57 - please note that Naim is currently closed for the Christmas and New Year holiday.  I suggest you try to make contact again once they have returned.

We are far too accustomed to 24/7 services, and I think it's fantastic Naim still has closures for Christmas/New year and I think late summer - this is great for the workers and their families.

I have been working over the weekend, yesterday/overnight and will be again this evening - I've done these patterns for decades on and off, and resent it more and more as I get older as I lose important time with the children/family in general.

Suspect I'd be in the minority but I'd love to go back to more limited Sunday trading - not on religious grounds but without those 'retail opportunities' which we accept and avail ourselves of, I think we'd be far more likely to have some decent downtime with family/friends, perhaps just doing nothing at all.

Hello everybody, wishing you an happy new years with lots of musical enjoyment.

Alley Cat - Richard Dane :  I agree too, spending time with your family, your child or your friends is something very important and I don't want to have people working night and day.  

My first email to Naim was on 01/12/18 , I never have any response to it. Its seems that other people don't have any response too.

I will try to contact them on the next week, hopping you will have a good news for us about the firmware. I always had the possibility to downgrade firmware with all my electronically gear, for Hifi stuff (other brands) or computer or industrial part...

Hi Alex, this is Paul. If you have any news updated from naim support. Please help to share my question to naim too. Because my atom happened same sound issue after firmware upgraded to 2.6.1. Because naim support just told me to contact HK dealer only and HK dealer said no firmware to provided. Then dealer asked me to contact naim support again. No solid answer to help me to fix it the issue. i really to felt is disappointed for Sound Quality from my Naim atom for 1 month ago. 

Hi Richard, May I know any feedback from naim support team? Hopefully to wait your good news to us. Thanks your continue to follow up!

Hi CKP1738,

my previous mail was send to the uniti team at uniti-support@naimaudio.com, I send another mail to support@naimaudio.comservice email about the problem.

I will informe everyone when I would have a response.

Considering that the subject has already been discussed on an other thread and  that many people want to go back, I hope Naim will take care of there customers.

Paul, I have forwarded on to Naim.  It may be that their hands are tied (I believe that certain licenses can have restrictions on allowing backward fw downgrades), but hopefully you'll hear from them soon.

Does perfoming a factory reset on Naim equipment not take it back to the original firmware. From experience, I know it does on a qnap nas and SBT streamer.

But be careful, if you’ve any music stored on the equipment, it will probably be deleted.

fatcat posted:

Does perfoming a factory reset on Naim equipment not take it back to the original firmware. From experience, I know it does on a qnap nas and SBT streamer.

But be careful, if you’ve any music stored on the equipment, it will probably be deleted.

No, the original shipping firmware is not stored on the new Unit series, though some recommend a factory reset after a firmware up/downgrade.

The downgrade (or upgrade) process is initiated via the web interface to the device, it's a real shame Naim don't simply have a repository of current/older firmware for the new Unit range available to download - the fact that they don't suggests (along with Richard's licensing comments) that they may have a good reason for not doing so.  Is it possible that once you upgrade some licenses for software get renewed for that firmware with potential issues if you downgrade?  I recall one poster saying they could not get Chromecast to work on a downgraded firmware version, so I suppose there's also the possibility that a downgrade might require some kind of bespoke firmware modification for the individual to access an older or updated license?  Supposition of course.

fatcat posted:

Does perfoming a factory reset on Naim equipment not take it back to the original firmware. From experience, I know it does on a qnap nas and SBT streamer.

But be careful, if you’ve any music stored on the equipment, it will probably be deleted.

A factory reset will not change the firmware version, it will just remove any alterations you have made to the settings. 

As for stored music, there is no storage on the Nova, so that won't be a problem here. 

The older firmware 2.3.8574 is can’t to use chromecast built in. So naim need us to upgrade to 2.6.1.9794. Actually, after the upgraded it, the sound quality also changed, I don’t like the sound effect after upgraded and felt uncomfortable. I felt disappointed why naim can’t to older firmware to me as my requested? They just give me “model answer”, let me to contact dealer to check the situation only! My naim atom is normal status now, no need to contact dealer and also dealer told me no anything helps me to fix the SQ issue. Because dealer also no older firmware or any suggestion to provided. The just told me waiting coming newest firmware to upgrade!!! I never to upgrade for future again! I afraid this issue happened again again again! Naim support team.......I hope you to consider your customer’s comment or enquiry now! We need the “best” sound quality, so we are choose Naim. But after the upgraded your fix changed. Then, we got the “bad” sound quality at this moment and also disappointed as your replies emails. I don’t want to share your replied emails at this thread. But your “model answer” is let me to unhappy for why you gave me this answer=solution? Finally, naim support team, please consider again and try to give us the good news as soon as possible. Hope you understand our concern! Thanks

As I have read, on the older thread, some people seems to have done the downgrade way to 2.3.1 firmware. Considering this, there is no technical problem to do it !  What is the problem with the license ??

We are all buying Naim product for the AUDIO quality. That's a fact that consumers want to have at less the original sound or an improved sound (like lastest firmware for ndac which have also change the sound..) not worse !

Personally, I don't need the chromecast integration but really need a good audio signal quality.

ckp1738 posted:

The older firmware 2.3.8574 is can’t to use chromecast built in. So naim need us to upgrade to 2.6.1.9794. Actually, after the upgraded it, the sound quality also changed, I don’t like the sound effect after upgraded and felt uncomfortable. I felt disappointed why naim can’t to older firmware to me as my requested? ........... We need the “best” sound quality, so we are choose Naim. But after the upgraded your fix changed. Then, we got the “bad” sound quality at this moment and also disappointed as your replies emails. ......

ckp1738, a few points:

Chromecast - it works 'fine' on my Nova reverted to:

...it should work for you on the Atom if you get the firmware file to revert UNLESS there's some weird licensing issue whereby in addition to applying the firmware downgrade you have to be re-licensed to use it manually by Naim - I hope not, but who knows, I think in the older threads there was at least one person who could not use Chromecast on 2.3.8574, but I can assure you I've upgraded/downgraded countless times and Chromecast works.

The firmware after 2.3.8574 radically changes the sound - problem is it's a personal thing, some people really love it, others like me don't and I'm happy with 2.3.8574 even if I don't get new features - a compromise I'll accept.  Now who knows with the next update - it may be more to our liking.  Naim clearly view post 2.3.8574 firmware as sonically better, which is fine, unless in your system it doesn't work as well....

As for support, the Musos and new Unitis clearly sell in increased volume compared to traditional lines and Naim seem to have outsourced support for common problems which can probably be easily solved, this may be why you are getting 'scripted' replies.

I do hope Richard can liaise with the standard support team for you as even if Naim don't support it, far better to have a happy customer running older firmware than someone who's got new firmware that doesn't work sonically in their system.

With the benefit of hindsight (as I was critical of sound quality post 2.3.8574), I think we should avoid 'good' or 'bad' sound quality comparisons - they are simply different and what works for one customer may not work as well for another.

Thanks, alley cat! I am awaiting naim support to provide older firmware ASAP. 

Thanks too Alley Cat.

I hope to have good news from Naim soon too.