Downgrading firmware Naim Nova

Thank you for your feedback regarding the V2.6 Uniti software. Please accept our apologies for the delay coming back on any open support tickets – we thank you for your patience.

Please be assured that every software update released is scrutinized for sound quality and is only released when we are happy that there is an improvement. The latest Naim App versions are designed to work with versions 2.6.and above and have been tested for this.  Rolling back from the current firmware version to V2.3.8574 results in features disappearing from the Naim app – you will also no longer be able to multiroom between your Uniti and legacy streaming products. Additional issues may be present as testing is not conducted with all previous software versions. We do appreciate that the listening experience is subjective, therefore we will pass your feedback onto the development team for future considerations. Thank you for your continued support

Hello,

Thank you for your response. I'm hoping Naim will continue to improve there product in sound quality and also with new features.

As you already know, the Naim sound has changed for the last release in a different way that some of us don't appreciate. I have buy my Naim Nova with listening on the first firmware and I was happy with it, with the newer one it's not the same feeling. I understand this could be an improvement for Naim but not for everyone considering threads on the forum (and that's just a sample of the problem).

Could you give me the old firmware release ?

Regards.

Hi Naim support,

Thank you for your replied, i am totally understood your mentioned situation. However, we are unable to accepted the sound quality after upgraded V2.6.1. But you told us is no any SQ changed, we can't to accept your answer. If you can't to provide older firmware V2.3.8574. Another way, could you provide newer firmware upgrade version to focus on sound quality revision immediately? Let's get happy experience for SQ from your naim audio instead of keep on feeling uncomfortable sound experience for future. We hope to awaiting your good news and get back to us as soon as possible. Hope you understand with thank you!

NaimAudio posted:

Thank you for your feedback regarding the V2.6 Uniti software. Please accept our apologies for the delay coming back on any open support tickets – we thank you for your patience.

Please be assured that every software update released is scrutinized for sound quality and is only released when we are happy that there is an improvement. The latest Naim App versions are designed to work with versions 2.6.and above and have been tested for this.  Rolling back from the current firmware version to V2.3.8574 results in features disappearing from the Naim app – you will also no longer be able to multiroom between your Uniti and legacy streaming products. Additional issues may be present as testing is not conducted with all previous software versions. We do appreciate that the listening experience is subjective, therefore we will pass your feedback onto the development team for future considerations. Thank you for your continued support

I do hope you reach out to these posters individually even if that is the 'corporate line' - if not, you are hardly going to enjoy their continued support as Naim customers are you?

The current Naim app works fine with the older software on iOS apart from inability to change audio L/R balance and max volume output (the one which defaults to 85%), though if you don't factory reset you can adjust these on current firmware before reverting if you need to.  There may be other subtle issues but nothing major I can see.

Alley Cat posted:

NaimAudio posted:

Thank you for your feedback regarding the V2.6 Uniti software. Please accept our apologies for the delay coming back on any open support tickets – we thank you for your patience.

Please be assured that every software update released is scrutinized for sound quality and is only released when we are happy that there is an improvement. The latest Naim App versions are designed to work with versions 2.6.and above and have been tested for this.  Rolling back from the current firmware version to V2.3.8574 results in features disappearing from the Naim app – you will also no longer be able to multiroom between your Uniti and legacy streaming products. Additional issues may be present as testing is not conducted with all previous software versions. We do appreciate that the listening experience is subjective, therefore we will pass your feedback onto the development team for future considerations. Thank you for your continued support

I do hope you reach out to these posters individually even if that is the 'corporate line' - if not, you are hardly going to enjoy their continued support as Naim customers are you?

The current Naim app works fine with the older software on iOS apart from inability to change audio L/R balance and max volume output (the one which defaults to 85%), though if you don't factory reset you can adjust these on current firmware before reverting if you need to.  There may be other subtle issues but nothing major I can see.

I agree too.

It's seems that some people had downgraded their firmware with the naim support. 

I think you can provide this downgrade too for people asking for...

I will send an email again to naim on this way. 

Hello everybody,

The response received today from naim customer services. 

Dear Alexandre

Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay coming back to you. We have recently had a change in personnel in our Tech Support department and we are only just now catching up with previous agents' cases. 

Thank you for your feedback regarding the V2.6 Uniti software. 

 Please be assured that every software update released is scrutinized for sound quality and is only released when we are happy that there is an improvement. The latest Naim App versions are designed to work with versions 2.6.and above and have been tested for this.  Rolling back from the current firmware version to V2.3.8574 result in features disappearing from the Naim app – you will also no longer be able to multiroom between your Uniti and legacy streaming products. Additional issues may exist that we are not aware of that have not been identified. We do appreciate that the listening experience is subjective, therefore we will pass your feedback onto the development team for future considerations. Thank you for your continued support.

Best regards,

Naim Support

Many thanks for your patience

Best regards,

Naim Support 

a  simple, copy/paste  response like the one on this topic. 

They seems to don't care about their customers

I don't understand why some people had benne autorised to downgrade and why I can't do this !

I don't know what your consumer protection laws are like, but here I'd be off back to my dealers with it asking for rectification or refund - if Naim didn't announce a sound quality change before you updated, but implemented one that fundamentally changed the device such that you feel it is now "faulty" (i.e. it's not the device you chose by selection as it's been significantly changed in areas which make it incompatible with either your equipment, environment or hearing) you should be able to get one or the other of the above. If you knew beforehand then it's a different matter as you chose to go ahead despite the knowledge. The point here is that Naim were aware of a change, but didn't provide you with the information to be able to decide whether to upgrade or not.

It is worth contacting your dealer anyway - I contacted Naim about this and they requested my Nova back to see how the update process could be affecting the sq (there was another issue too that they wanted to investigate, for which I'd already been in communication, provided wireshark traces, etc ); I was provided with a loan replacement which sounded totally different to mine (with the same software).  Steve Harris obviously had a few ideas from our conversation, but I don't know what became of those, or the testing as Naim (after a while) asked if I wanted to keep the loan device, to which I said "yes please".  Stupidly I didn't think to ask the results of the testing; I believe (from this forum) that Steve had left Naim, or was off long term sick) at that point.

Plus one

The customer has a contract with the dealer. If there is a sound degradation, the unit is obviously faulty, meaning the dealer should fix, replace or refund.

The fact that the manufacturer has a licensing agreement with some other party is of no concern of the customer.

Pointing this out to the dealer may focus their attention on resolving the ‘fault’ issue.

alex57 posted:

Hello everybody,

The response received today from naim customer services. 

Dear Alexandre

........

Many thanks for your patience

Best regards,

Naim Support 

a  simple, copy/paste  response like the one on this topic. 

They seems to don't care about their customers

I don't understand why some people had benne autorised to downgrade and why I can't do this !

That is very disappointing.

I would ask to escalate the issue if possible, the response is rather dismissive - pretty much 'thanks for the feedback but we know best'.

If there is a specific reason why a downgrade cannot be offered it would be illuminating to know what it is, as it would inform us about the risks of updating on any of the current range of products.

I cannot see what is wrong with a customer running older firmware so long as they accept certain functionality (they may not even need) may be broken and new features will not be added - if you need the newer features such as multi-room and presumably upcoming Airplay 2, then as the user you need to decide whether to compromise if you don't like newer SQ to get the features you need or stick with what you have.

Also, I'd imagine there will be people who never choose to update if they're happy or may not even have broadband and simply play digital files locally.

Hello Tallguy,

what this mean is that Naim totally know the problem. They assume that the upgrade of the firmware have changed the sound quality in the wrong way (in some unit) as they change the unit in your case ! I am curious to have the result of the analysis on your first unit.

We are not talking about subtle changes on sound quality (like better separation, airier treble, etc), that's an overall change in sound balance (sound is darker - louder)?

Unfortunately, I have buy the unit in secondhand, so I can't go my dealer house. But when I received the Nova, it was on 2.3 firmware which was pretty good to my ear. I have updated to 2.6.1 after some weeks and I'm not so pleased with this firmware sound. Knowing that some people have been authorized to reverse it, I want to do it too.

I'm pretty much disappointed by the position of Naim staff and the "non-professional" attitude. Sorry to write this, but I always have been satisfied by the Naim product, there is a problem for the Nova (reviewed and rewarded many times...).

Hi Alex,

Your received their reply,  I also received the same model answer’s email last month. So I am not suprise that! Naim is very straight forward to reject to provide the older firmware v2.3.8574.  I think we can’t to received their older firmware ASAP. We just to awaiting their new update firmware to solve the sound quality only!! Hope they can early to provide update for us only!! OMG!

alex57 posted:

Hello Tallguy,

what this mean is that Naim totally know the problem. They assume that the upgrade of the firmware have changed the sound quality in the wrong way (in some unit) as they change the unit in your case ! I am curious to have the result of the analysis on your first unit.

We are not talking about subtle changes on sound quality (like better separation, airier treble, etc), that's an overall change in sound balance (sound is darker - louder)?

 

I think I need to clarify that Naim wanted the unit back for testing because of another issue as well as my mentioning the apparent loss in "listenability". They were aware of people not getting the results expected from the upgrade, but didn't know why, hence asking for my Nova back for testing (my interpretaion of our conversations). They apparently had no clue as to what was happening as all machines should have been the same after update, but that was turning out not to be so, hence the request for my Nova which was one which showed the issue and therefore an obvious candidate for examination/testing. I always believed that the intention was  that I would get my original Nova back, however that eventually wasn't the case - they asked if I wanted to keep the loan unit or have mine back - I selected to keep the loan unit as it was easier.

-------

I do know that there was a big difference between my original Nova (one of the first made I think) after upgrade to 2.6 and the new unit I received with 2.6 pre-installed (the new unit was unused, still in all of it's protective wrapping which is why I say this) so I'd guess that there's something about the upgrade process, rather than the upgrade 'product' itself that causes the issues still being reported. This is why I say to return to a dealer who should be able to liase with Naim about this - 2.6 isn't "worse" than 2.3 - it is different, but the warmth is still there. A dealer should be able to get Naim to provide the return to 2.3 or to get the update to 2.6 "right".

[...it would also be interesting to know if the issue only affects the earliest Novas or randomly aged devices - could there have been a hardware change, however trivial, along the line that may affect (or different firmare in a different component - different suppliers of "the same" product) for example ?]

I fully agree it should be the purchaser's choice as to returning to a specific firmware version as long as it's made clear what is lost as a result (which may include support) and the choice can be an informed one. Keep trying...