Another what next

cheers

Nigel

I can't believe you would seriously use a Supercap with a 72 and a 180. Better to get an 82, then Hicap, then 250.

Those speakers really won't let you hear what the LP12 is getting off the record.

Nigel, unfortunatly as much as you may be right, I cant follow your advice, this is for a couple of reasons, (1)I am in the grip of a serious bout of upgradeitus, this only seems to bite every five years or so, but when it does it's usually a prolonged incident, (2) If we all followed your advice there would be no trickle down from the 500 as Naim would soon go out of business.

Chris, again some sensible choices, however if I follow your route my upgrades would be far more expensive as I would have to replace everything again bar the 250. I know a supercap on a 72/180 is a little excessive, yet this is the most cost effective way for me to get to a 52. Buying a highcap then an 82 then a supercap then a 52 is far more expensive than just going supercap and 52. Same goes for the Intro's, I have heard my setup with a SBL's and the Index's are certainly the thing holding my system back most at the moment, and my previous comment covers why I wouldn't buy a hicap at the moment, and again, why buy Intros only to replace in a few years with SBL's anyway, I would rather wait an extra 6 months or so and go straight to the SBL's.

Finally, James, again valid comments. The LP12 is currently supported on an Audiotech TT, the rest of the system is just on a heavy wooden rack, I can hear no valid difference in sound from placing pure electronics such as amp's on expensive stands. The Index's are on Ku-Stone stands which seem to suit them perfectly. I have been contemplating getting a Mana table, but have not got round to it yet. I also though about a prefix, but after a few discussions with my dealer decided against, at least for the time being. The 17d2 is fairly new (less than 3 months). This is perfectly adequate for my current setup, but will probably be replaced by one of the more expensive dynavectors when it wears out, or if I can find a cheap second hand Troika that I can get rebuilt by Linn then maybe one of those.

Thanks guys, all of you gave valid ideas, but at the moment I think I'll stick with my original plans.

Simon

quote:

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Proposed upgrade sequence .
1) SBL's
2) SuperCap the 72
3) Replace 72 with 52
4) Replace 180 with 250.

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That to my mind is a very good upgrade plan, as you point out you will make minimal loss on reselling stuff. The negative side is that if you use SBLs on a system with a 72 Vuk will never let you hear the last of it, nothing else will be talked about in the whole of Canada for years.

I would throw in as an option that you consider a temporary "free" second hand speaker upgrade. By scouring loot you should be able to find a second hand pair of Kans, or IBLs, which will have finished de-valuing, i.e. you will get back at least the same cash when you sell them on for the SBLs later. Kans actually seem to be increasing in price at the moment so you may make a few quid! Both Kans and IBLs much better than Index IIs, and are certainly good enough to enjoy your future 52/SC through.

If you get either Kans or IBLs you entitled by conference law to take the mick out of Vuk's Tannoys, which is great fun.

Tony.

PS try a Mana Reference under the LP12… a very effective use of 350 quid.

Tony, what would you say is a good price for a second hand pair of IBL's or Kans. My experience of the second hand speaker market is non-existent.

Tom, your most probably right. From the dem I had of the CD5 there is already a huge difference between this and the LP12. Wont really be able to tell how much until I get the CD5 home and warmed up. Still as my LP12 setup is about 4 times the price of the CD5 this is to be expected.

I guess the route I will take depends on demo's. The usual turn up at the dealer saying "OK I've got x thousand pounds burning a hole in my pocket, show me some kit." And see what sounds best.

Simon

quote:

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Tony, what would you say is a good price for a second hand pair of IBL's or Kans. My experience of the second hand speaker market is non-existent.

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Kans on stands (and you definitely want the stands) start at about 150 going up to around 250 for a really nice condition pair. The teak and walnut finishes are far, far rarer than the black ash, and tend to change hands for the most money. There are fierce views held between some people as to which are better, the Mk1s or Mk2s, in fact there are many different revisions of both version, so it gets even more complex. My personal view is they are all great - I have owned three pairs to date two different spec Mk2s and a pair of Mk1s. The ones I have now are a absolutely mint condition final spec pair of Mk2s in a really high quality teak finish - I love them, and will not consider changing them until I am at CDS2 / 52 level.

IBLs - there was a driver revision late in their production run which improves them a bit, again like Kans most are 80s black ash. A black pair with the original drivers tend to go for about 200 - 300, expect to pay quite a bit more for a wood finish pair with the later drivers, I would not suggest paying over 400 for a mint pair though. My recommendation for the IBL is purely based on other peoples opinions that I trust, I have never actually heard a pair. Most of their fans rate them above Credos, and some rate them above SBLs. If what they say is true, they must rank as a real bargain. Julian V was a big fan of them.

Tony.

As I was going through this process somebody recommended replacing the tweeters with the rega version, £40 per side, which I did to great effect - the kans have never sounded better. BTW the Kans, SBLs, and Rega Ela all use the same tweeter - a Scanspeak. The original costs £36 from Wimslow Audio, a hand-built rega version is £40 and Naim will sell you a matched pair for a fair bit more.
Phil

I can definately recommend the IBLs, I have a pair of MkIIs in black ash, and they are wonderful. I am not quite sure that they are actually comprehensively better than the SBL, but are certainly less fussy about setup. The real difference is only the last few Hz of bass - the SBL has it, the IBL does not. That said, the bass is far, far deeper and tighter than could be expected for the size - and I think the midrange is fuller. Different strokes for different folks...

They are unquestionably better than Credos. One of JV's posts in response to a request to recommence production explained that they would actually cost 25-30% more to make - so this would be expected. I have heard them side to side, ad in comparison, the Credos sound veiled and congested.

It is worth getting a pair of MkII, although you have to hunt around - they only account for a very small proportion of the IBLs out there. Personally, I am looking for a really top pair of them in a wood finish, and I would sell my granny for a piano black pair, although I am not at all sure if any such thing was ever made - any comment from naim?

Tony's suggested prices are pretty much spot on. I paid £300 for my boxed MkIIs from a dealer, which I thought was a pretty good deal. Any more than this and they need to be the real wood finishes to justify it.

You can upgrade a MkI to a MkII. The only changes (AFAIK) are to the mid/bass driver, and the use of NACA5 on the crossovers. The latter can be done yourself if you have a way of opening the sealed crossover boxes.

Email me if you need any more info

Ben

Even at this price I consider them to be, along with my 32.5 the best buy I ever made. I run them active with 2 x 250 & probably will never change them, even with a 500!

Bob