All components by Naim ?

Is there a "better" system than Naim ? For me, no. However, "better" is a difficult word, and someone like Vuk, with a strong background in perception, is likely to offer a more complete appreciation of the concept "better."

As for a complete Naim system ourperforming one that is mix and match, my feeling is that in listening to a complete Naim system, properly installed and run in, you are hearing most completely what Naim intends. This is obviously not everyone's cup of tea--I hear lots of people call it "uncompromising" (which cuts both ways), while others believe that a single source system is the only way to go to get music.

Cheers,

Bob

Well this rumour is easily proven wrong IMO because the best Naim systems are those driven by a vinyl source such as the LP12. Naim does not make a turntable/cartridge so all the components cannot be Naim.

Paul

Regards P.

Listening to my modest Linn axis/baisk/assak with
a valhala instead of the original power supply -
I don't think it is inferior to my CDI.

Naim don't manufacture a turntable because there is no need to make one (so I believe) the world is full with excellent machines and there is no need to add one to the list.

Arie

[This message was edited by Arie_Gur on SUNDAY 01 October 2000 at 23:03.]

quote:

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If Naim can produce what is arguably the best CD player in the world then how come they've never made a turntable?

---

...because the market could/would never support it, due to (new) software availability.

Let's face it--pressings in the 80's (when I started collecting records) generally were quite bad, and subject to as much post-mastering quality-control issues, despite the efforts of the best record cutters in the industry.

Though I have a great turntable, I regret that many of my favorite recordings would require 45 RPM cutting to achieve the same dynamic range as a well-mastered CD (especially with electronic music), with an even shorter playing time...

If you've had the opportunity to work in the mastering domain, most of these things would make perfect sense, especially as a limited-edition vinyl run DONE RIGHT is hugely expensive compared to a well-done CD pressing.

Dave Dever, NANA

I hope I don't reopen an old debate, BTW I compared a CDSII (only three days warm-up) and a fully loaded Linned LP12 (though with an Archive I catridge) in both my system (it's all Linn, I must confess) and a friend's all american system, with the same results: CDSII has more dynamics and scale, sounds less compressed; LP12 is *much* more subtle and finely informative in almost every area - timing, tune, pitch, timbre, imaging, textures of instruments. IMHO vinyl remains definately superior in musical terms. It could be that in a different system (such as an all Naim one)things would be different, but I'm sincerely doubtful...

Cheers,
Paolo

But i got an ARO over a year ago, which dropped CD down to less than 5% of my listening, and I got a Karma a few eeks ago, which upped LP to about 95% of my listening - and as others have mentioned, Naim has not marketed a 'table.

That's because it isn't really a midflight deck - swap the Ittok for an Ekos (which is really a refined Ittok) and you're almost there with the vinyl front-end. The Ekos came out in the late 80s so your turntable represents about 35 years development after the introduction of the LP. The nature of the problems of 16/44 CD, however, has meant that only very recently, and with the very best power supplies and filters etc, has CD been able to stand alongside vinyl...which the CDS2 probably, with good software and a decent mains supply, can. And CD player development has only been in progress for 17 years. It would, of course, be pointless to develop it much further with much better technologies now available.

I have an LP12 Lingo/Aro/XX1-L, and a CDX/XPS, and probably 80% of my listening is CD. That's partly the availability of new discs, sure, but there's a kind of balance at that level of CD replay which vinyl doesn't really get.

Arie

Vuk:

I do not wish to be merely contradictory to stir you up but would you include the Reiner and Chicago reissues on RCA in this category, too? What about the London orchestras that are reissued or the Vienna Philharmonic recordings on Decca? Surely not all these are worthless, too. IMO, there are many classical reissues that are excellent and a bargain too compared with the cost of purchasing the originals. I would agree that not all are necessarily great or that all contain great music but only that many are quite worthwhile.

Paul

I can also recommend the classical and jazz one-sided 45rpm reissues by Classic. They are extraordinary and perhaps among the best ever produced in the vinyl medium for these categories.

I have heard both the CDS2 and fully-loaded LP12 in several complete Naim systems. Both are excellent. I could certainly live with either. The CDS2 was the first CD player that I felt matched or surpassed the qualities I admire in vinyl replay (I own a LP12). Only Linn's CD12 possibly compares and it is twice the money.

Paul

Can you address me please to the places in which
I can buy new vinyls ? Do they ship abroad ?

Do you have a catalog of new LP's ?

I Israel there are someplaces in which you can buy used LP's.

Arie

But the real treasure trove is in used vinyl - the prices of used classical are going down (except in the case of audiophile favorites), and it appears to be plentiful related to the demand.

Ever heard of TRACKING ERROR?

I wouldn't buy a second hand LP unless I Knew the previous owners habits intimately!

By the way Vuk - Steely Dan did not release their most recent effort on vinyl - how much is that an endorsement!?

Regards P.

Thanks for the sites.

Arie

A misaligned diamond vs centrifugal force driven through a piece of yielding material to me seems like a bad thing altogether and I have seen,and heard, the results.

At the time of it's release 2vN was NOT released on vinyl - I am a regular on the Dan forum and know this as FACT! and the reason? - I 'm not even gonna bother !

Twit

By the same token, there's a lot of pristine vinyl recordings of superb performances. A little discrimination goes a long way toward a high hit to miss ratio. Besides, at the prices, one can afford to throw away the mistakes.

Notice your body while listening to recorded music. I relax and get into the music, usually, with LP. I do not get into the music with CD. If you have an opposite reaction, your choice is clear.

Check these. They all ship overseas.

Acoustic Sounds: reissues from every label plus recent releases
http://www.acousticsounds.com/acoustic/catalog/index.html

Mosaic Records: jazz only/limited edition sets
http://www.mosaicrecords.com/

Audiophile International: new and used
http://www.audiophileusa.com/

good luck,

Paul

Vuk:

I think you may be confusing this record, perhaps unfortunately titled by RCA in 1958 when first issued, with something else - I 'm not sure which one.

The "Reiner Sound" LP has the following pieces, complete without interruption or cuts:

Ravel: Rapsodie Espagnole
Raval: Pavan for a Dead Princess
Rachmaninoff: Isle of the Dead

Certainly you may, if you wish - in your opinion - dismiss the music as lightweight compared to Beethoven. Others would consider it worthy of being performed. I would think most major orchestras perform these pieces with considerable frequency. However, a record of "silly" highlights it certainly isn't.

The record was re-released by Classic as it is considered a collectors item by both those who seek Reiner performances and for the quality of the recording. Original copies in excellent condition would sell for at least several hundred US$ thus making the reissue at $30US a bargain. (By the way in my experience the Classic reissues surpass the qualities of the original in dynamics and PRT but not in warmth and "air" so desired by "round-earth" audiophiles. The 45rpm version is considerable better than both those at 33in all ways.)

Paul

I’m beginning to be convinced that you don’t know what you are talking about. The RCA reissue conducted by Kondrashin contain two works only:

Tchaikovsky: Capriccio Italian
Rimsky-Korsakov: Capriccio Espagnol

Again this is NOT a highlights album. If you don’t like the music – fair enough – but don’t damn it with your sweepingly negative comments implying that it is worthless. Judging from your comments about this record I am sure that you have never heard it. It actually has been repeatedly praised for its performance (and not just by audiophiles).

Paul

[This message was edited by Paul Byron on WEDNESDAY 04 October 2000 at 04:34.]

Exactly who are the savages here? You have condemned both these works by Tchaikovsky (perhaps there are grounds for this actually!) and Rimsky-Korsakov as "irrelevent". No, they are not Beethoven, we all know - you don't need to remind us. And Kondrashin is not Furtwangler, whom I'm sure would never dirty his baton with such trifles. (Or did he...?hmmm)

Paul

Thought I would check for you - but you probably knew anyway - Furtwangler did not record any Rimsky-Korsakov but did record Tchaikovsky's last three symphonies.
Check the complete discography of Furtwangler at http://www.fornax.hu/wfsh/disco.html

Guess he thought Tchaikovsky wasn't all bad or perhaps he was trying to demonstrate how irrelevant he was!!

Well, I've had enough of this. I certainly don't know how you can take the time to post as much as you do - what with infopoop crapping out all the time, it has taken far too long to post these few messages. I certainly prefer to listen to music/records than argue about their merits. I'm sure you do, too.

cheers,

Paul

Regards P.

Please explain.

Arie