As I came home on Friday night, walking down the path that leads to my place, I saw two beige boxes sitting on the front porch. Weird, I'm not expecting any delivery... some courier must have delivered these boxes to the wrong house.
But as I walked closer to resolve the writing on the side I could begin to make out a word in a gothic typeface: M - A - N - A. Someone has delivered Mana to my place. What are the odds of me *accidentally* getting some hi-fi nutter's Mana order, I thoguht? But as I checked the waybill I saw that it was no mistake: the consignee was me.
Of course, my wife, Suzanne, thought I had placed a secret order and had just been caught, so I was getting that look she gives me when I bring stuff home just to try out. But I really didn't order anything. Honest. I got married two months ago and have just moved to the U.S., so I’m hardly replete with cash. And what savings I had took a beating when it was converted from Canadian to U.S. dollars.
A couple of phone calls revealed that Vuk, Joe Pellizzari and Randy B. had given me a Sound Frame and that some kind folks in the UK had given me a Power Supply Table! Thanks guys! That was very generous, and, as you’ll discover, greatly appreciated.
I opened the boxes to set up my new widgets. Damn, I have 12-mm and 14-mm wrenches, but not a 13-mm one... and the hardware stores are now closed. Not to be dissuaded -- and knowing that I wouldn't sleep without trying them -- I set up the platforms best I could, tightening the nuts as much as possible by hand. I put the Sound Frame on my custom-built p9 stand and the Power Supply Table on my custom-built CD2 stand, then placed the respective components on the Mana.
Unbelievable! Even though the Mana was only very crudely set up and placed on top of non-Mana supports I got a inkling of the Mana effect — what used to be an amorphous bass blob had become individual, distinct notes played with conviction; what used to be harsh, grainy and distorted noise had been resolved into musical detail; and what used to be disconnected sounds had been ordered into music. It seemed like an across-the-board upgrade, as though I had installed a better cartridge, upgraded the preamp, and jumped to the next power amp. And it was consistent. Record after record, CD after CD, I got the same kinds of improvements. Who would have thought angle iron and glass could be so much fun?
The next day I bought a 13-mm wrench and did the set-up properly, getting an even greater improvement. It’s not hard to do, but it takes some patience to adjust the spikes until the glass platform rings and the platform is levelled. Mana's certainly not plug-n-play, but you won't need an advanced degree in mechanical engineering to get it right.
Is Mana for you? If you enjoy Muzak played through a mushy tube system you probably won't like it. But if you like music with played with verve, emotion and conviction you owe it to yourself to try these products.
Joe
Posted on: 11 September 2000 by dave simpson
Hi Mick,
FWIW- I own both AF/BASE and Mana. I've found the AF sytem far better than the other racks I've tried over the last twenty years. I think it damages the sound the least.... with one exception.
It's a distant second to Mana. I *do* want to stress the word "distant". The AF system still slows the music down , imparting a mechanical quality which leaves you concentrating on the sound, not the music (compared to Mana).
Funny, you just seem to be listening to the music, you don't even think about things like "gee, the bass and soundstage is great tonight" or "boy, everything is screechy, must be bad AC tonite ".I find myself simply *not* thinking, just grooving.... the same thing we all do at a *live* musical event.
Hope this helps, just my two cents worth.
regards,
dave
Posted on: 12 September 2000 by Mick P
Chaps
You all seem fairly sold on Mana, I am still comptemplating buying some and will make up my mind after I return from a holiday in four weeks time.
I am running out of shelves in my wall unit (which is staying put)and I might still buy one of those little mana tables to put under the CDX. I will compare it to the Vuk set up and go from there
.
I will soon be hoping to purchase a XPS and this will need to go either under or on top of the CDX.
Now for the question.
Will this affect the Mana / Base set up. In other words, do these platforms only work properly with one black box on them, or will two boxes wipe out the effect.
Secondly, please stay around TF because I think your current down grade programme is only a passing fad. I know you have suffered from "gloopy ears" in the past and I suspect this is the root cause of your problem. You will soon be back upgrading....you know it makes sense. Get yourself down to the local Chineese doctor, you will hear music better and rediscover Naim.
Every upgrade that I have done has made better music and I want more of it.
Regards
Mick
Posted on: 12 September 2000 by Tony L
quote:
You all seem fairly sold on Mana, I am still comptemplating buying some and will make up my mind after I return from a holiday in four weeks time.
Excellent, an open mind is always a good thing, as is a money back guarantee...
I am very interested to see how you get on with whatever Mana you try, I do however have two concerns with what you plan:
My first concern relates to how your cupboard behaves acoustically – depending on its construction it may amplify any airborne feedback issues, sort of a guitar sound box effect. The Mana should definitely improve matters, though you may not get the full effect you are paying for if the shelf you place it on is none too good. Would it be possible to use something such as an amp rack in the normal way and construct something you perceive as more aesthetically pleasing around it, though not mechanically interfering with it?
Secondly, stacking your CDX on a whopping great PSU (XPS) will ensure neither performs at its best. As a rule try and get things with big transformers as far away from things without as is possible, the negative effect of putting my HiCap next to my preamp is scary. When trying the Mana, I would give far greater priority to the CDX, preamp etc than the power supplies.
I got a five tier amp rack on Saturday – a massive musical and sonic improvement. The rack is actually quite small in size, certainly a lot smaller than the one it replaced, I will measure it if you want the dimensions.
Tony.
Posted on: 12 September 2000 by Bob Edwards
to Dave, above. . . .
My experience does not reflect mine, with the Base rack, for my taste, leaving the Mana behind. In contrast to the Base, the Mana sounds leaner, brighter, less expressive and has less body-- a Bosendorfer grand does not have the majesty and dynamics it has in real life on Mana, while on Base it does. The Base also seems to me to be better at unravelling multiple rhythms in all kinds of music.
Others mileage may vary (and obviously does !)
Cheers,
Bob
Posted on: 12 September 2000 by dave simpson
Hi Bob,
Fair complaints. Until recently no one in the US understood how to correctly set-up a Mana stand. I won't go into the hows and whys of this situation but lets just say the problem is being dealt with and resolved by by Flat Earth (US dist.) and Mana.
Probably one of the biggest set-up problems discovered was just how tight does one do the nuts. All here in the US (Flat Earth included) assumed full-torque-we-wanna-see-veins-popping-out-on-your-forehead.WRONG!!! Setting up the stands in this manner caused major problems. The most important of which was a loss of the tune (pitches out of whack). The more levels in an array set-up this way, the more "off" the pitch on some notes. Interestingly, most found the pitches as reproduced with gear on Mana and mis-adjusted this way *still* sounded more in tune than any other support on the market. It's just when a sour note did come along, it stuck out BIGTIME .
To shorten this story..... thinness of sound, lack of color, the bloom of the notes (lack of), were also created by this little important detail in the set-up procedure. Pitch accuracy though, for most of us, was the main problem.
Of course there are other set-up steps that must be followed to achieve the " Mana Effect" but IMHO, I think the " how tight is tight" nut problem has caused the majority of complaints you've shared for some folks out there.
Thankfully, because of forums like Mana and Naim offer, we can identify and solve minor problems that cause the misconceptions.
hope this helps.....
dave
[This message was edited by dave simpson on WEDNESDAY 13 September 2000 at 00:37.]
[This message was edited by dave simpson on WEDNESDAY 13 September 2000 at 00:42.]
Posted on: 13 September 2000 by Greg Beatty
Not exactly a Mana experience, but this seemed the best thread for reporting last night's adventure.
For the first time I put my hicap and 140 on spiked glass.
I hadn't done this because (1) the MDF seemed OK, and (2) the Source Firsters succeeded in getting me to focus on my CD3 and 72.
Anywho, this one move may be the solution to my classical music problems. The glass cleans and "fills in" the upper midrange considerably and allows the ambiance and 'air' to come through. Textures and lyricism are improved, dynamics are improved (say, 'wake up call'), and PRaT seem no worse for wear. Off the glass, the 140 muffles the entire frequency range.
The bass seems extended a tad and is noticeably less 'bumpy'. The CD3 and 72 are also on glass now and I enjoyed Brahms Hungarian Dances (NAXOS), a few of Bach's Brandenburg Concertos, and Holst Planets for the first time in ages. And it still rocks!
I wouldn't be surprised in the least that a purpose-built glass stand would beat what I've done by a mile...
- GregB
Who has better classical now
[This message was edited by Greg Beatty on WEDNESDAY 13 September 2000 at 18:19.]
Posted on: 13 September 2000 by Greg Beatty
The glass I have is thin - 3mm I believe - and I am concerned about the integrity of it under the weight of the 140 (heavyish) and hicap (Holy Cow! What's in there?).
So...
My 'spikes' are 1 1/4inch or therabouts sheetmetal screws that are superglued to 1 1/4inch or thereabouts washers. These thingies cost pennies to make and you can make gazzillions at one time. These are the same design that were recommended a year or two ago in Listener magazine.
Right now, I have the washer part against the glass with the spikes pointing down onto a piece of MDF. The MDF is just sitting on the carpet. The hicap and 140 sit with their rubber feet on the glass. I may try with spike points up, but I'm squeamish about the thin glass I'm using. I also may try spiking the MDF through the carpet.
It was a quick experiment last night that turned into a few hours of delightful music. My hicap and 140 seem to like glass...
- GregB
Posted on: 14 September 2000 by bob atherton
Hi Greg,
On the previous forum I went on at some lengths as to the acoustic properties of glass. Some years ago I developed and marketed a support using 10mm clear float glass. With the distance of 10mm between the surface tensions the glass is 'softer' and more absorbent of the 50hz resonance.
Tinted or smoked glass is more brittle as the tinting process 'hardens' the core. This is possibly why Mana use an acoustic damping material on the underside of their glass.
Has anyone out there tried changing their tinted glass to clear as I suggested a while back?
Bob
PS: To Naim.
If you are considering developing a support that may involve glass, please let your R&D know I would be delighted to share my findings with them.
Posted on: 14 September 2000 by Tony L
Dave said:
quote:
I've got a SoundStyle rack (no flames from anti SS people please - it was bought in a sale, long before I had my Naim gear), and the glass sits on rubber cushions that are sunk into the stand.
I used a 5 tier Soundstyle tripod until last week when it was replaced by a Mana amp rack (which is very much better). I did try the top glass level of the Soundstyle resting on little ball bearings placed into the tapped screw holes. Result - no bass! well almost no bass anyway. Not good at all.
My hunch with the Soundstyle would be to try a MDF shelf on it - I was planning to do this until I decided to go the whole hog and buy the Mana. If anyone wants a nice turquoise SS...
Bob said:
quote:
On the previous forum I went on at some lengths as to the acoustic properties of glass. Some years ago I developed and marketed a support using 10mm clear float glass. With the distance of 10mm between the surface tensions the glass is 'softer' and more absorbent of the 50hz resonance.
Care to tell us more, I'm afraid I don't remember your post on the old conference. What was the stand you marketed? Why is 50 Hz important… transformer noise? What does a good stand actually do, and how does it work?
Tony.
Posted on: 14 September 2000 by Greg Beatty
Yes! I remembered your post! Turns out the 10mm stuff is harder to find and not cheap. I like to tweak, but I would rather buy the properly made item if the DIY cost becomes significant.
For now, I'm on the fence between buying Mana and selling the whole lot. Between my girlfriend and me, we have three mini systems that are quite enjoyable to listen to and offer no fuss. They don't have the scale of the large system and miss out on some detail, but...
- GregB
Freedom is not in finding the Holy Grail but in stopping the search for it
Posted on: 14 September 2000 by Bob Edwards
Glad to hear you thought my comments "fair." For clarification to Dave--I have absolute confidence that the Mana was set up correctly, ie not overtightened. Joe--I think I agree with some of what Ross said above about Mana (but not Naim). In a direct comparison, Mana sounded leaner and brighter, without the body that my ears say music should have. The Base does not add waffle, fatness, or anything like it; it removes these as effectively as Mana.
Like I said, I prefer the Base; others obviously disagree, which is fine.
Cheers,
Bob
Posted on: 15 September 2000 by bob atherton
Hi Tony,
As I do not wish to incur the wrath of Paul's censorship pen I will be brief about the product I designed & marketed.
It is called Greenline & is basically a glass Isoplat ( though in most peoples opinion sounded infinitely better ) with special polyurethane feet as opposed to sorbothane. It was sold by myself & branches of Radford Hi-fi about 10 years ago. There are many happy users and a small trickle are still sold by myself.
I soon discovered that glass had very special properties. It is the only thing that I have found that can have a large effect on sound when the glass & product sat on it is outside of the room and virtually free of airborne excitement. I have come to the conclusion after many hours over many years that the glass is damping out
resonance's within the product on top of it.
The only thing in common with my tests is the 50 Hz in the UK mains. I have it on good advice that this resonance manifests itself in products without a transformer, though is not so serious.
Once I had established this special property with glass tests were made with 6, 8 & 10 mm. 10 mm clearly had the greatest effect. I did not go beyond 10 mm for cost of glass & carriage weight restrictions.
I tried smoked glass for a more sophisticated look, but sonically did not match the clear float glass.
I hope this is informative & possibly useful.
Best wishes,
Bob
