Is there anybody......out there

I'm just curious as to why everybody thinks the forum is so bad ? I only very occasionally used the old forum, and then only searched a few times, back when I was contemplating getting a prefix,and to be honest, I dont remember the forum at all, so I cant really comment on the old style.

However, this does not seem so bad, I agree the smilies etc are a waste of time, they dont add a great deal of benefit, and I've only managed to get them to work once anyway.

I saw in some thread, probably one of Vuk's, about not being able to tell when there were new posts , seems dead easy to me, I've just got into the habit of leaving the forum up and running in a browser window and refresh the screen whenever I have the time. By looking at the time of the last post prior to pressing the refersh button, and the time after the refresh it's pretty easy to tell if there have been any new posts.

I'm sure I'll get shot down in flames for actually saying the new forum isn't so bad, but as the whole point of a forum is to express a view point, I don't care.

Later

Simon

Naim do not really undertsand the wired world. They do not understand the net's resistance to censorship. They have been hostile to Mana enthusiasts. They have little feel for netiquette, for example when Mike Hanson ticked Paul Stephenson off for editing his answers into peoples posts he replied

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I have replied once or twice in that way, I would hardly call that a habit. It was appropriate to do it. Thats why I have the admin badge.

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Personally, I visit the forum much less freqently, and seldom find anyhthing I want to read, let alone contribute to.

If it does wither away I will miss it.

Nic P

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They really do not understand why experienced net users hate this software compared to the previous software. They thought they could ignore all the protests and it would all settle down.

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Why not move it to a newsgroup. This could be run completly independant of Naim. The only problem I can see with this is that some of the contributors would have do agree to be moderators, so that all the spam and advertising could be cut out.

This should be relatively little effort, seems to work well for rec.audio.highend. It's a low volume news group, but so would any rec.audio.naim or whatever.

Simon

My perception remains that Naim is hostile to Mana. In PR (and the forum is part of your PR) perceptions are the only reality. I have frequented the Mana forum (where I recently got a bloody nose) and I would also say I perceive hostility to Naim there.

I am old enough to remember when the Entente Cordiale broke down between Naim and Linn, and at that time felt sad that two great British Hi-Fi company's which shared so many values were no longer friends.

Given I think it was you who said that Naim were developing equipment racks then you are certainly going after their core business. Pre-announcing such a move (which caused some posters to say they would delay purchases until the Naim racks were available) is a highly aggressive commercial tactic.

Can I ask other forum contributors - do they share my perceptions?

Hope I am wrong.

Nic P

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Is not Mana, the company and its products, different from Mana enthusiasts?

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An interesting point, but I think you will agree that the average forum visitor may find it easy to confuse where your aggression was directed, as I did.

Nic P

I don't think that the useful activity in this forum is much less than in the old one - they just go through quiet and busy periods. It was veyr busy the other day. I think there's less background noise in here, which shouldn't be confused with less activity.

Trevor

Seriously, you said

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Is not Mana, the company and its products, different from Mana enthusiasts?

I make no apologies for aggressive marketing, it's survival of the fittest.

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The obvious interpretation was that you made no apologies for aggressively marketing against Mana and may the fittest survive.

Nic P

Lets try to be sensible.

This new forum, be it permanent or temporary, is OK by me. There are over 570 members and its been fairly busy except for the last few days, and there has always been a peaks and valley's, so from me at least, plus the majoritory of the others, no complaints.

Yesterday, for the first time in many months, I perused the Mana forum and JW/Mana appears to have has as much charm as a bear with a sore head.

He is positively insulting to all and saundry and PS is a paragon of virtue in comparison.

I also noticed Nic, that you were also on the receiving end of JW's abuse for asking a simple question and I have never witnessed you suffering such derision on this forum.

Even I got a mention (narrow minded) and I have never even contributed to their forum.

I suggest we become grateful for what is still a sensible, and in the main, well managed forum.

We all behave reasonably well and contributors on this forum who conduct themselves in an intelligent matter are, surprisingly, quite prone to using four lettered words in an abusive manner in Mana's forum. If you encourage childish behaviour, you will get it and that ethos, for some unknown reason, seems to run through Mana from top to bottom.

Is that what you really want this forum to become like ?

Regards

Mick

At risk of ruining the fun can anyone give an update on whether we may yet get different forum software or are naim now planning to try and enhance this? I am a little concerned that there may be a perception that we're all getting used to it when I suspect many are really just tolerating it for the time being. The only comments on this seem to be from Vuk and Mike - I'd quite like to hear from naim how things are going.

I would reply to the chap at the top of the thread who asked what was wrong with this software but as I can't reply to your post directly in the thread and because absence of a discussion thread on screen prevents me seeing who you are easily (without opening up additional browser windows) I don't think I will.

I rest my case.

Jonathan

We have no problem as we have said ssoooooo many times with discussions about other peoples kit, we have said we object to some part time sales pitches from a small element.
PLEASE ALL NOTE
We have no problem with the MANA people, we like their racks along with a HUTTER, QUADRASPIRE,BASE,and I am sure there are others.

We have also posted rules(which seem to have got lost in the move, I will re-boot) relating to this forums content. As to my post within a post well tut, tut.
Neil please stay we all love the idea of a great forum. I know the joke, well this is no great forum, well boo yah!!

[This message was edited by Paul Stephenson on TUESDAY 05 September 2000 at 20:24.]

Isn't it nice to hear the Canadians quiet for a change ? Maybe they've discovered that actually using their NAIM system for the purpose it was originally intended is more worthwhile than deciding what everybody else in the world should be using?

To reply to Jonathons original post - difficult under the circumstances - happenstance old boy - happenstance -enjoy your listening.

Regards

P.errr

I've been busy (trying to find a replacement for this silly forum software). Catch you later!

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Smilies do not a forum make.

Now how can I stir up that Manana lover who called me a mullet?

Regards

P.err

Speaking of whch, last night's edition offered an explanation of Oasis' behaviour - that the boys' mother raised them on beer when they were infants.

Revelatory.

Vik

so.... what's next?

Hifi in reverse indeed.

Regards P.yeah

Regarding the new format, I believe that we all sing off the same hymn sheet. I take it as read that we would all like the forum to continue, but that it needs some radical tweaking, if not a new host. To this end lets keep talking & work towards that goal.

As for free speech, that would appear to be slightly different. I guess the reason for the existence of the forum is that Naim can hear what they need to know, and that the contributors can say what they want to say. The dilemma here is that the most outspoken contributors that tell it the way it is, which is exactly what Naim want to know, if a little uncomfortable at times, feel that they may be censored if they step beyond slightly fuzzy boundaries.

IMHO I think that we should be allowed to say ( within clear, but not unreasonably restrictive guidelines ) what we want.

I personally feel that the forum has a healthy future if both Naim & the contributors have mutual respect for each other.

Bob.

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respect
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The way I see the future and for that matter the purpose of the forum is _ relatively _ simple.
Regarding the new format, I believe that we all sing off the same hymn sheet. I take it as read that we would all like the forum to continue, but that it needs some radical tweaking, if not a new host. To this end lets keep talking & work towards that goal.

As for free speech, that would appear to be slightly different. I guess the reason for the existence of the forum is that Naim can hear what they need to know, and that the contributors can say what they want to say. The dilemma here is that the most outspoken contributors that tell it the way it is, which is exactly what Naim want to know, if a little uncomfortable at times, feel that they may be censored if they step beyond slightly fuzzy boundaries.

IMHO I think that we should be allowed to say ( within clear, but not unreasonably restrictive guidelines ) what we want.

I personally feel that the forum has a healthy future if both Naim & the contributors have mutual respect for each other.

Bob.

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Couldn't (didn't) put it better myself.

Mick Parry mentioned about my recent kicking from JW on the Mana forum:

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Yesterday, for the first time in many months, I perused the Mana forum and JW/Mana appears to have has as much charm as a bear with a sore head.

He is positively insulting to all and saundry and PS is a paragon of virtue in comparison.

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I agree that Paul is a pussy cat compared to JW, but even so I feel that Paul is at times too aggressive, sarcastic and apparantly unaware of netiquette to be an outstanding moderator. I was pretty caustic in an earlier posting about Paul's response to Mike Hanson objecting to Paul editing his comments into peoples' posts. In response to this and other comments the moderator suggests I (and Neil) consider leaving the forum. Not what I expect from a moderator.

I really hope the forum picks up in terms of content, and that this is indeed a temporary lull. I was flagging my concerns that it may be a trend.

Nic P

FWIW, it was a 3-day weekend here in the States (don't know about Canada, UK, or other places...) and one of the highest travel weekends of the year. So many of us may have been incommunicado. I took Tuesday off also.

As far as censorship goes, it was a big issue many months ago on the old forum, but really has not appeared to be a problem of late. As far as the handling of the Mana thing goes, the 'Mana marketing' on Naim's forum really seemed out of hand to me when Naim finally said something and put a stop to it. Naim's action at the time was appropriate AFAIAC.

As for the moderators injecting into existing posts, hummm....

I can understand why people would take offense at this but do note that the current forum does not allow a direct response to a particular message. If the moderator has a *strong need* to respond directly to mis-information or whatever in a given post, editing the existing post is the only way to do it. But, generally, the new information may not be seen as I've trained myself to jump to the end of threads for new messages rather than re-reading threads to see if something has been editorialized.

Well, that's my $.02.

- GregB

[This message was edited by Greg Beatty on WEDNESDAY 06 September 2000 at 19:38.]

[This message was edited by Paul Stephenson on WEDNESDAY 06 September 2000 at 20:12.]

i have to admit its taken me a while to figure out whats going on -- but now i have a well rehe****d script -- i have no problems at all... i am not a web expert -- if i dont like the faces, i will simply not use them...

enjoy ...

ken

Anyway surly the word A R S E is no worse than 'bum' or maybe I'm just a yob.

I will now wash my mouth with soap & water.

Bob

If I wished to enquire about Naim dealers in North Lincolnshire steel towns will the forum software allow S****horpe through unchanged? Or will I get S****thorpe?

Matthew

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Do we really have to have a net nanny more stringent than Mary Poppins? Every time I see the word rehe****d it makes me cringe.

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This has been winding me up since day one, not only is it pathetic it also makes many posts difficult to read. I am rubish at word games and the like, my brain is just not wired that way, and when perfectly normal words are censored I often find it hard to follow a post. If lots of diffrent words get censored in a post I give up. How non native english speakers cope with this I don't know, badly I expect.

Given that you have to declare yourself over 16 to take part in this forum I really don't see why any censorship is necessary at all. The BBFC have decided that massive use of strong swear words in 15 certificate films is OK, meanwhile Naim are treating us like 5 year olds.

The fact that the infopoop software cannot tell the diffrence between S****horpe and the word c-u-n-t on its own is even more pathetic, and illustrates just how clueless they are. This lot introduce threading and new messages soon? No f-u-c-k-ing chance.

Kevin.