koetsu for aro

Posted by: TerryFranks on 12 September 2009

ha to the naimes can you mount this cartridge on a aro just for munch sensible replies please tel.
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Geoff P
Terry

You can mount a Koetsu in an ARO quite easily but the cartridge overhang is wrong unless you can adjust the position of the arm mount in relation to the platter which is not possible on most decks.

You can see in the photo that the front of the cartridge sticks out quite a lot.



Naim has been quoted as saying they don't believe small amounts of overhang error are anything to fuss about ( it's about 2-3 mm for the Koetsu )and that changing the mounting holes in the ARO to slots would degrade the arm performance much more. I Have to admit the Koetsu Blue I have sounds pretty damn good in the ARO even if it is not possible to set it for absolutely the best tracking angle.

Geoff
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Geoff P
quote:
I think you need to choose another cartridge.
...why? As I said though there is a small overhang error I cannot hear any degredation in performance of the Koetsu compared with when its overhang is set correctly in the SME V. If Tel fancies Koetsu their cartridges are excellent alternatives and have a lovely emotional sound.

regards
geoff
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by HansW
I used a Koetsu Rosewood Sig on my LP12/Aro for many years. The fit is not correct but it still outperformed an Asaka and a Troika by a good margin. If I was buying a new cartridge today I would choose the Koetsu again in preference to the Dynavector DR XV-s I am using now (which is a better geometric fit).

Hans
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Chillkram
Now Tel, that I would like to come and hear!
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Geoff P
quote:
Originally posted by HansW:
I used a Koetsu Rosewood Sig on my LP12/Aro for many years..... If I was buying a new cartridge today I would choose the Koetsu again in preference to the Dynavector DR XV-s I am using now (which is a better geometric fit).

Hans
Hans...I know what you mean. The Koetsu's in roughly the same price bracket as the DV XV-1s have something about them that is very attractive. My rosewood body Urushi Blue captures the music just that bit better than the XV-1s can. The XV-1s sounds very correct and resolved across the frequency range but is just a bit clinical in comparison

regards
Geoff
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by aht
Geoff, so you are currently using the Urushi on the ARO, and the XV-1s on the SME? Interesting. Originally it was the other way around, right?
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by jacques (JD12)
Geoff,

It seems your koetsu blue is a relatively long body. I think the black is a bit shorter, about comparable to my Supex (the poor man Koetsu).

Jacques
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by ryan_d
Jaques,

the Supex isn't the poor mans koetsu...koetsu used the body of supex's in their original carts.

the sound of koetsu is something to behold, nothing but fun.

Ryan
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by jacques (JD12)
quote:
Originally posted by ryan_d:
Jaques,

the Supex isn't the poor mans koetsu...koetsu used the body of supex's in their original carts.

the sound of koetsu is something to behold, nothing but fun.

Ryan


Yes I know, the original Koetsu(s) were based on reworked Supex. Sugano worked at Supex, hence the physical similarity between Supex and Koetsu. The first prototype of the Naim Aro was designed and tried by Guy Lamotte with his own Supex cart (I think he had more than one).

Jacques
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Geoff P
quote:
It seems your koetsu blue is a relatively long body. I think the black is a bit shorter,
Jacques...I am not sure about that. I had a Black for a while and I recall it being about the same length.
quote:
Geoff, so you are currently using the Urushi on the ARO, and the XV-1s on the SME? Interesting. Originally it was the other way around, right?
Munch is a bit unkind. It is true I had them the other way round. TBH both the SME V and the ARO do such a good job that either will do as a home.

regards
Geoff
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by paulr0414
Geoff
Do you use or need the heavy counterweight on the ARO/K combo?
Thanks, P
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Geoff P
quote:
Geoff
Do you use or need the heavy counterweight on the ARO/K combo?
Thanks, P
Paul, yes I do because I needed it for the XV-1s. The standard weight would be OK with the Koetsu but it is just heavy enough to allow the heavy weight to be used with it also. Concensus is having the weight in closer to the spindle housing is a good thing so that works out well with the Koetsu.

Munch
No problem.

regards
Geoff
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by aht
quote:
Originally posted by munch:

He must of mist your great thread.


Mist? What am I, an old foggie?
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Whizzkid
Ok we need some Koetsu pron....

Coral.



Tigereye Platinum.



Platinum Jade



Urushi Vermillion.



Bloodstone Platinum.




Onyx Platinum.



And my favorite Urushi Tsugaru.





All bloody expensive so a picture is the closest I'm going to get. Smile



Dean...
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Keith L
Dean,
Should I be bonding some Mother of Pearl onto the sides of my AT440MLA?
Keith
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by paulr0414
And one at work . . .
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Whizzkid
quote:
Originally posted by Keith L:
Dean,
Should I be bonding some Mother of Pearl onto the sides of my AT440MLA?
Keith


Yeah why not the other option is shelling out 7 grand for a Koetsu.

Paul,

Got a bigger picture?



Dean...
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by paulr0414
Sorry Dean - that's the only one
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Whizzkid
Nah,


I just love the variety and look of a Koetsu so any chance to spread the love I jump at it.

Another Fav, Urushi Wajima





Dean...
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by paulr0414
Munch, yes it is Smile
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by Whizzkid
LP12 TikTok is my guess.



Dean...
Posted on: 12 September 2009 by paulr0414
absolutely right Dean, a very vintage ittok, hence my interest in the suitability of an ARO
Posted on: 13 September 2009 by paulr0414
Geoff

Did you consider any high mass arms when you acquired your Blue?

There is so little written about Koetsu here that I was about to discount the ARO as a suitable option.

Regards, Paul
Posted on: 13 September 2009 by TerryFranks
ha to everyone thanks for the information regarding the koetsu still have not made up my mind of what cartridge to go for tel.
Posted on: 13 September 2009 by Geoff P
quote:
Originally posted by paulr0414:
Geoff
Did you consider any high mass arms when you acquired your Blue?

There is so little written about Koetsu here that I was about to discount the ARO as a suitable option.

Regards, Paul
Paul...I put a thread up sometime ago which got quite a good response from the Koetsu users. It is HERE

At that time I only had an SME V which you will read some opinion on the thread felt was a good home for a Koetsu because heavier arms are thought to suit Koetsus' I have been running both the DV XV-1s and a Koetsu, alternating between them as the whim takes me, for quite a while, using the V. About 8 months ago I upgraded the Koetsu Black to an Urushi Sky Blue
It was quite recently that I decided to try the ARO, mainly with the idea of use with the XV-1s since the gospel here is that they go together very well, but of course having two distinctly different arms leads to the temptation to experiment.

I have now had the Koetsu in both the SME V and the ARO on my Michell. It is not a clear cut thing at all. The SME V has this solidity that seems to transmit into the musical presentation, on the other hand the lightness and unipivot mounting of the ARO seem somehow a little 'faster'. There is virtually nothing in it as far as bass extension is concerned though the bass is a little drier from the ARO than the V. The natural Koetsu sound is ever present on both arms. The only thing that nags a bit is the knowledge that the overhang is not correct in the ARO and therefore tracking is 'off' from optimum, but there is no audible evidence that preformance is compromised ( and both Naim and Michell say it is not an issue in their experience) so I put it out of my mind. Jeremy B would be a 'usefull opinion' on this if he is 'around'. I will see if I can contact him.

So only you can decide whether you should get an ARO. To me it is on a par with an SME V and on the Michell the difference in presentation that results is very subjective. I am happy I bought the ARO (2nd hand BTW).

The ARO is quite frightening until you get used to it because it flops around when lifting and manual cuing is a little hairy, but you get past that and it becomes quite easy to live with after a bit of experience. The ARO setup is quite tweaky compared to the SME V but not beyond someone who is OK with small tools though if you have a dealer who can install it that is best.

I would reckon the ARO would be a step up from an Itok, though I have never heard one. In LP 12 setups though, using the XV-1s as a comparison the ARO is as good as the new EKOS SE IMO.

regards
Geoff