HDX (+ XPS2,555PS)

So where would you place this performance w.r.t NAIM CD players? Does a HDX / 555PSU show the CDS3 a clean pair of heals?

Paremus, I really can't comment on this at all since I didn't have the time today to sit and do all of the relevant comparisons. this is something that i would like to do in 3-4 weeks after the HDX has really run in. It continues to improve and impress.

As Dave Dever said the voicing on the HDX is different than the CDPs. I can easily see how someone who has listened to CDPs for a long period of time and is accustomed to the music playback could prefer this. I know that my immediate impression of HDX vs. CDX2 was that I preferred the warmer sound of the CDP. However, it was clear that the HDX excelled in base and some other areas. My opinion at that time was that they were "pretty equal overall."

I think that the HDX is very precise and detailed and for some it is not what they expect or like. I think it takes time to adjust to the differences. The music,however, produced by the HDX is no less engaging and grabs you right away.

Adding the power supplies really improves things as you'd expect. I was not prepared for the improvement that I heard when the 555PS was added. My impressions were the same as others who've commented on what they hear when the power supplies are added to the CDX2, same type of changes to the music were evident.

Ultimately the HDX fits where I want to go with my music in eliminating the need for locating CDs, computer control with an easy to use interface for music management, ability to play hi-res files, and I want rips of my music to be done properly and consistently without the need for me having to worry about it. I actually want to go buy more music again since once its downloaded, in theory, I'm done with that disc. There are always compromises, but in the case of the HDX the positives win the day.

As far as people commenting on the fact that the Linn DS kits are better than their corresponding CDPs, I can't comment as I've never heard a Linn CDP and people are looking for Naim comparisons on price alone if you will as is done with the CDP line-up.

At this point I would not buy another Naim CDP if I were to upgrade to CDX2 or above or was looking to purchase a new kit at CDX2 level or higher even if I ultimately were to feel that the CDS3 or CDX2 were better than an HDX (+/- power supplies) (relative comparisons, obviously if the HDX were blown away by these I would feel differently)since my impression is that music has been and will continue to move in a different direction.

Well - I might as well chime in as I spent a nice amount of time today with the HDX-CDX2-CDS3 and an Akurate DS - all through a 552/300.

Let me preface by saying that I listened with someone else extremely well versed with Naim CDP's - and I have owned a CD5-CD5/HiCap-CDX2-CDX2/XPS2-CDS3-CDS3/555ps(my current). Oh - and whatever I say below is my opinion - nothing more nothing less.

The HDX appears to be about on the same level as a CDX2. I think many others on this forum have said the same thing. If one wants convenience than it is most likely the way to go (if one wants to stick with a Naim product since there are other competitors to consider). Both myself and the other person actually preferred the CDX2 - although more or less the HDX was there. Add a XPS2 - the performance is lifted however lets not get this wrong - it is NOT a CDS3. Actually to reference Garys post above - sorry - but the CDS3 does blow the HDX away. Sorry but the CDS3 is just that good

Gregg

@ glevethan:
What about the Akurate DS? I heard one in comparison to a CDX 2 in a full Naim system and was not impressed at all with the DS.

Gregg, now offense taken.

The CDS3 is still the way to go if you are interested in 16 bit replay when compared to the HDX. I wrote that it was not a replacement for the CDS3 in my initial "HDX-production model" thread.

My comments were really meant for comparison with the CDX2. When Naim came out with the HDX during the summer many, myslf included, said it really needed to be CDX2 or above. Naim seems to have hit the mark.

My immediate impression was that the two CDX2/HDX, were very close indeed and the HDX has continued to improve over the past week. I don't know if you got the chance to listen with both the XPS2/555PS, but they added significantly to the performance-- the same way adding to the CDX2 does. The guys I work with give 2 nods to the HDX over the CDX2 to one who sees it the other way, but it really is close and the two who prefer the HDX have lived with it for a longer period.

I think that aside from the portion of my last summation paragraph with respect to the CDS3 (not sure why I put that little tidbit in there), I think that my comments are spot on.

For someone like you who has the CDS3 it really makes no sense to switch-unless the compromise to you in music quality is outweighed by the HDX positives wrt music management, etc... as we've discussed. However for some wanting to upgrade from a lower end Naim CDP or enter the Naim brand and is looking for an entry point, if they are looking to the CDX2 level, then the HDX needs to be given a serious look. I think that for $2500 more there is alot there that Naim did very well.

From a personal perspective I wouldn't buy a CDS3, not that it's not agreat player, but it doesn't carry the advantages for me that the HDX does at this point and it does play 24 bit files and makes it a new ballgame.

quote:

Naim knew what they were doing when they put the 'DX' in 'HDX'.

true...i think the HDS is on its way...

quote:

Originally posted by pylod:

quote:

Naim knew what they were doing when they put the 'DX' in 'HDX'.

true...i think the HDS is on its way...

Yes, probably based on the Naim NS Ref music server with 2 boxes separating disc management, and electronics, and either requiring or needing XPS2 or 555PS as the CDS3. It would make sense if this is the concept.

so scary i find hard disc included in the whole solution, i guess naim will hold to them as a part of the second box...

quote:

Originally posted by pylod:
so scary i find hard disc included in the whole solution, i guess naim will hold to them as a part of the second box...

or perhaps they are investigating solid state drives.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:

quote:

Originally posted by pylod:
so scary i find hard disc included in the whole solution, i guess naim will hold to them as a part of the second box...

or perhaps they are investigating solid state drives.

I hope so

thatīs the point...after 3 years my digital hasselblad camera is worth nothing anymore. and it cost almost a midrange car...

quote:

Originally posted by pylod:
thatīs the point...after 3 years my digital hasselblad camera is worth nothing anymore. and it cost almost a midrange car...

Pylod, your only looking at the HDD. What about other files downloaded and stored on a NAS then streamed to the HDX. Or let's say music at 24/96 or 16/44 released on SSD which can also be downloaded to a NAS.

Naim went with the "internal rip" since they felt that they had more control and ease of use then relying on individuals to figure out how to program and use a progam such as EAC for their rips. Solid state drives are just too costly right now, I'm sure you'll agree. I know PC Stockton and others say it's easy, but that is not the point. With the HDX there are no settings just "plug and play" for the rip so to speak. It's repeatable and consistent--very important for your customers I'd think. I've perused the Linn forum on the DS devices and I'm amazed at the number of people complaining about the rip or looking at other ripping options such as a $1500 rip factory device. This just go to show you that control of the digital copy is essential in consistent and quality playback. I'm not disagreeing that a separate "Naim rip station" ethernet connected to you NAS, with or without internal storage, would be nice (eg the 2 box solution), but what would have been the cost.Or perhaps the HDX without the HDD, just the internal rip station ethernet connected to your NAS. Maybe this would have been better, who knows it's not what we've got. These are all obvious possibilites I'm sure Naim had to look at them for consideration bedfore deciding on the current model

Once you get past the rip and HDD and your music is stored in the NAS it becomes no different than a Linn DS streamer. I know you then feel that you paid for something that you didn't need, ie the HDD, and I can't argue with that, but it doesn't change the overall flexibility of the product down the road.

quote:

Pylod, your only looking at the HDD. What about other files downloaded and stored on a NAS then streamed to the HDX. Or let's say music at 24/96 or 16/44 released on SSD which can also be downloaded to a NAS.

yes but this is what i mean. when once enabled, will the through the hdx to the nas ripped music sound the same compared to the internal discs ripped music ? when the theory, that every harddisc sounds different is true, then you have the answer.and the problem

quote:

Originally posted by pylod:
yes but this is what i mean.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean - and what is the present alternative?

I guess I'll find out soon enough. But that issue applies to every digital streamer. I don't think that will change with solid state drover either.

I think part of the key is to keep your NAS simple- no extraneous functions or programs that the drive needs to deal with.

quote:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean - and what is the present alternative?

i know i answered a bit complicated ...

i ment that the hdx, when ripping into itīs own hard disc will maybe sound different , compared to when ripping to a connected nas ( once the function for external ripping is enabled through for hdx )



of course this will apply for every streaming solution. it was just my idea, that thatīs why naim has chosen to go for the best sounding harddiscs. i mean i donīt know. it might just be hypothetical.

i really like the idea of a one box solution, but in my case i will need to apply a nas already, because of too many cdīs .

i wonder if the storage inside the hdx will be swappable, once larger discs are available. if this could be solved it would be great.

Gary1

While playing with the HDX on Saturday I had the chance to also visit the RipFactory box at my dealer (he is both a Linn and Naim dealer). I believe that the box costs $1k and not $1.5K. Needless point however I will say that I was extremely impressed with the unit. It was simple to use - just pop in a CD and wait until it pops out - and the Rip settings are pre-configured so there really needs to be no user intervention if so desired. If one wishes to get involved on a deeper level there is an excellent web interface which allows you to do many things. There was even a nifty one click feature "back up my hard drive". It was explained to me that the unit was not a simple NAS but rather a headless Linux computer - pretty impressive stuff.

Yes - Rips are of the ultimate importance in obtaining great sound however there are other solutions out there which work amazingly well - and are quite simplistic. During our HDX demo we commented on how we still had etched in our minds (or rather our ears) when the Linn rep took a CD and placed it into his laptop(!), ripped a Pink Floyd track in a minute or two with the canned EAC program, and then played it back immediately on the Klimax DS. My LP12 didn't sound like that when playing the track - thats how good it was. I guess my point is there are many ways to skin a cat and obtain great results.

Gregg

Gregg, agreed. It is intriguing the philosophical differences taken by Naim and Linn in their approach to digital playback and streaming. I wonder what led Naim to take the all in one approach as opposed to the pure streaming direction which Linn has taken. I know comments which Paul has made about the lack of need for a computer, home network, and other factors, but I wonder if this was the driving force or something else, especially since external storage will be required at some point anyway. Furthermore, as Paul has posted you can obtain the same results without using the Naim rip and he even mentioned EAC. Even as part of Naimnet, you don't need the music stored on the internal HDD to function and distribute. Just food for thought.

Pricing is 1200 for 500gb and 1400 for 1TB and that is for JBOD, to raid you need to purchase an additional hard drive. Functionality is simple and straight forward, but it is not cheap, compared with $50 for d-link DNS-323 with 1 TB raided storage.

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:
and then played it back immediately on the Klimax DS. My LP12 didn't sound like that when playing the track -

Makes sense Gregg.

You have a Naimed LP12.

I meant $450, I wish it were $50.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:
and then played it back immediately on the Klimax DS. My LP12 didn't sound like that when playing the track -

Makes sense Gregg.

You have a Naimed LP12.

Kuma

Thats true however my meaning was that the Klimax was that good . You are a customer - you should head over and have a demo it might change your view on digital playback via ripped files.

Gregg

That's true.

Alma & David's place is one of the few places that can give a fair Naim and Linn demo.

However, I am so still hopelessly analogued in that I won't be in the market for HD based system anytime soon.

Unless...

If Naim comes up with a good AD/DA device and if the ripped files are good as my record playback, then I would definitely go through the trouble ripping vinyl. ( which is tedious at best )

Figure that would be worth it because it would minimise a cartridge wear.

So Gregg, the million dollar qustion. After listening to the Klimax again and your reported findings vis a vis CDS3 and your LP-12 are you goig to purchase a Klimax and move away from your other 2 sources?

I know a few months ago someone reported that a dealer had sold his CDP555/555PS and bought a Klimax.

quote:

Originally posted by gary1:
So Gregg, the million dollar qustion. After listening to the Klimax again and your reported findings vis a vis CDS3 and your LP-12 are you goig to purchase a Klimax and move away from your other 2 sources?

I know a few months ago someone reported that a dealer had sold his CDP555/555PS and bought a Klimax.

Gary
No. I have 3000 LP's and 1500 CD's so I have a vested interest in keeping around the traditional forms of playback. I have no desire to rip my records-no incentive (I own a LP12) - and the rips from vinyl will not sound as good as directly from the vinyl itself. The only thing that vinyl rips can offer is convenience however I grew up purchasing vinyl (CD's did not exist) so I actually enjoy the ritual.

As far as CD playback goes - at this point in time, FOR MY EARS, the only machine which can approach my CDS3/555PS is the Klimax DS. Even then, as I posted in a thread 3-4 months ago, I thought that I could be happy with either machine, Klimax or CDS3, and that it ultimately boiled down to which presentation one prefered - Naim or Linn. The convenience is very attractive (as I have found while playing with the digital machines) however I do not look forward to the task of ripping all of my CD's - I enjoy the ritual of going to the shelf to pull one out (and looking at liner notes) - and ultimately my CDS3 is still one of the best out there. As I have previously stated it might be fun to take my main genre of music - rip the 400 CD's - and put them on a server/streamer. This would give me immediate access and give me a chance to start. As such to do an "experiment" like that a DAC remains an affordable option as a Klimax at $16.5K (Linn promo) or a HDX/PS at $15K is rather expensive for an "experiment". Hence my interest in a DAC or a lesser cost streamer.

Regards
Gregg

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

However, I am so still hopelessly analogued

Are you then selling your 555?

Gregg