my headphone demo outcome (£600-£1400)

Posted by: Bruce Woodhouse on 25 August 2018

Thanks to the absence of my NDS on repair I have been enjoying portable audio via my Astell + Kern Kann and I also have an Arcam rHead on my main system. All with a pair of Grado 325e headphones.

With a rare opportunity to visit a dealer I decided to demo some pricier headphones to see if I could push things a bit further. I hope this is interesting to some.

So thanks to Analogue Seduction for setting up the following. It is worth noting that my old Grado are really not so bad, but although clean sounding and enjoyable these I tested were a class above. All tested via a Quad PA-One headphone amp as well as direct from the Kann.

Grado GS2000e. Comfortable and exotic looking these surprised me by being quite different in character to my 325e. They had a slightly rich sound that felt a little 'bouncy' with a rather slow bass. Engaging with faster music but female voices seemed to lose a bit of sweetness and seemed slightly thick. Soundstage good, not amazing. A bit tiring and a bit warm sounding to me. Disappointing.

Audeze LCD-X. I struggled to really listen to these for long because the overriding impression was they are too heavy. They weigh an absolute ton and I cannot imagine getting used to that. As for the sound they seem very balanced and clean. Nothing dominates. Lots of detail, voices very natural but the overall impression I had was that they were a bit too restrained and a touch dull. I found myself unengaged especially at lower volume. Not worth the weight!

Sennhesier HD800S.  Big step up. Very comfy and a sensible weight. Very detailed, very open, very natural. Easy to listen at low and high volumes. Amazing space in the presentation and the headphones almost disappear. Voices excellent. Bass quite marked but detailed. Criticisms? If anything they sounded a bit technical, a bit polite with something gritty and complex. Fantastic 'phones for choral or classical I would imagine. I certainly found myself hearing new things in tracks I knew well. Maybe the detail is a bit distracting-but I am sure you get used to it.

Quad ERA-1. Another planar design but although a bit heavier than the Sennheiser nowhere near the Audeze bulk. First impressions very good, and they were brand new from the box (I think they have only been available a few weeks as I've seen no reviews). Lots of detail but well-balanced, bass bit short of the Sennheiser's but with plenty of quality. Voices natural. Sound stage a bit enclosed compared to the Sennheiser but they come with a choice of pads and the thicker one is worth trying as this definitely improves things. Most important of all they are fun. Compared to the Sennheiser they had a bit more edge, perhaps a bit less sophistication but, dare I say it, maybe more PRaT? Listening back to back there was no doubt; the Sennhesier HD800S are very impressive, and more technically accomplished but when I swapped to the Quads I was probably enjoying the music at least as much.

Two things sealed it; firstly when used direct from the Kann rather than through the amp I felt the Sennheiser lost some of their margin compared to the Quads. Finally the Quads are just £600 vs £1399 for the HD800; not that they are poor value at that but their style just did not grab me fully. 

Job done, the cheapest pair wins! Now to run in one fresh pair of Quad headphones. I hope others get a chance to hear them as they get into dealers.

Have fun

Cheers

Bruce

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by james n

Thanks for posting, Bruce. The Quad 'phones got a very good review in HFN recently so it's interesting to read your thoughts on them. Enjoy. 

James

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by al9315

Thanks for that review - most interesting, I was going to open a post re: headphones to ask a couple of questions:-

I would be new to headphones - I note the Quad ERA-1s are over ear, so does this mean peace for the rest of the room?

May I ask which headphone amp you use ?

I did listen to a few pairs at the Hi-Fi show in Feb. but not easy to form any opinion, although one pair at around £2k were surpassed by a pair at less than half that price, agreed by the demonstrator, so will tread carefully

Thanks for any assistance

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by Bruce Woodhouse

They don't leak much as much sound as the Sennhesiers as I recall but they are open back so do not insulate against external noise. Neither is really an issue for me. 

Arcam rHead headphone amp on my main system (when my NDS comes back).

I definitely get the feeling that headphones are a very personal choice; always try before buying!

Bruce

PS I just read the HFN 'review'. Reminds me why I don't buy or read HiFi mags!

 

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by Bert Schurink

Thanks for sharing your review. Would have been interesting how you would have like the Senheiser HD820, they might be very interesting for mobile use. I also missed the Focals in your comparison. 

Hope others also can share some impressions, I am kind of interested to get over ears for my Sony NW-WM1Z.

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by Bruce Woodhouse

Dealer did not have any Focal models for me to try. My budget limit was £1.5k so I avoided picking up the 820s that were sitting on the shelf. They are £2k.

Bruce

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by Perol

A real pity your not expanding your search to sub £200 level

So many very good cans, K701/702,550, Beyers DT250,880, HD58X jubilee, HD650

I'd use more on amps if final amount is important

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by feeling_zen

I struggled with Audeze on comfort too when doing a big headphone demo. I couldn't really fault them on sound quality and so still recommend people try them. After all, everyone's head is different and unlike speakers, comfort comes before sound quality.

The Quads were not available back then so I ended up with Sennheiser HD800, oddly enough still preferred over the 800s by audio engineers because the 800s was "fixed" to make them less revealing at the top end and less bright.

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by Mike Sullivan
feeling_zen posted:

I struggled with Audeze on comfort too when doing a big headphone demo. I couldn't really fault them on sound quality and so still recommend people try them. After all, everyone's head is different and unlike speakers, comfort comes before sound quality.

The Quads were not available back then so I ended up with Sennheiser HD800, oddly enough still preferred over the 800s by audio engineers because the 800s was "fixed" to make them less revealing at the top end and less bright.

I grabbed the HD800 recently, and they are often discounted now due to the HD800S. They are a mighty headphone, indeed, I had not expected to get such good sound from a headphone.

Posted on: 25 August 2018 by joerand

Bruce, 

Coincidentally, I took delivery this week of a new Arcam rHead. I'm using it with Beyer T70 (250-ohm) HPs. Fantastic pairing, I'm listening to it as I write. A much better amp to drive the T70 than was the SN2's internal HP-out or even Beyer's own A20 HP amp. I'm just a few days into my demo but am certain the rHead will be staying. It's clear, detailed and neutral. An honest, accurate presentation to my ears. A well built product with a great volume dial. I can't imagine there's a better value out there in Class A HP amps priced under $300.

Posted on: 26 August 2018 by Emre

Hd800 is a very good headphone if you have a silene listening enviorment with a matching amp.... they are little picky on that but combine them with a violectric amp you will be impressed....

Congratulations on Quads

Posted on: 26 August 2018 by Mike Sullivan
Emre posted:

Hd800 is a very good headphone if you have a silene listening enviorment with a matching amp.... they are little picky on that but combine them with a violectric amp you will be impressed....

Congratulations on Quads

Interesting. I’m playing through a Nova with a Core as source and find them excellent. I’ve never thought to try a dedicated headphone amp, I wonder if there would be a benefit?

Posted on: 26 August 2018 by Perol
Mike Sullivan posted:
Emre posted:

Hd800 is a very good headphone if you have a silene listening enviorment with a matching amp.... they are little picky on that but combine them with a violectric amp you will be impressed....

Congratulations on Quads

Interesting. I’m playing through a Nova with a Core as source and find them excellent. I’ve never thought to try a dedicated headphone amp, I wonder if there would be a benefit?

Massive I would say but others think not

There seem to be very different views on the question

Posted on: 26 August 2018 by DrPo
Emre posted:

Hd800 is a very good headphone if you have a silene listening enviorment with a matching amp.... they are little picky on that but combine them with a violectric amp you will be impressed....

Congratulations on Quads

+1 this is the combo I use (HD800 S + Violectric 200) and I cannot imagine asking for more !

Posted on: 26 August 2018 by feeling_zen
Perol posted:
Mike Sullivan posted:
Emre posted:

Hd800 is a very good headphone if you have a silene listening enviorment with a matching amp.... they are little picky on that but combine them with a violectric amp you will be impressed....

Congratulations on Quads

Interesting. I’m playing through a Nova with a Core as source and find them excellent. I’ve never thought to try a dedicated headphone amp, I wonder if there would be a benefit?

Massive I would say but others think not

There seem to be very different views on the question

I found that the HD800 needed a serious headphone amp to shine. Their are great non Naim headphone amps out there. If going the Naim route, I found they justify a HeadLine2/HCdr. 

Posted on: 03 September 2018 by Bruce Woodhouse

Just a quick update.

Having saved quite a lot of cash from my anticipated budget on the Quad headphones I decided to take a punt on a £275 Chord Company ShawCan headphone cable upgrade.

Well good grief! Remember the first time you attached a top-end power supply to your Naim source? This is equivalent. More bass grip and control, some more definition and detail across the range, sweet and fresh trebles. The clean and transparent qualities of the headphones just turned up a level and most impressive of all far better spacial imaging. Sticking the old cables back on just felt like laying a cloth over the sound and constraining what they are capable of.

Obviously what they will do to your own 'phones will depend on the quality of what the manufacturer supplies but they may be worth a look. They do lots of fittings to suit popular brands and also custom lengths and are slender and light enough to not effect comfort.

I have even emailed Quad suggesting they are not getting the best from their product and should bundle a better cable; they would still be good value!

Bruce

Posted on: 04 September 2018 by feeling_zen

Yeah Bruce I had a similar experience swapping out the stock lead on HD600 with a Furutec led of similar cost, Huge upgrade.

I will say this though. Headphone lead upgrades are, like speaker cables, dependent on synergy with the amp. The Furutec lead was a massive upgrade when the HD600 were used with a serious headphone amp. When used with the built-in amp on the UQ2 the lead was a massive downgrade as they just made the headphone amp struggle.

So I would suggest any time you plug your cans into another amp, you might need to test with and without the Chord cable.

Posted on: 04 September 2018 by Mike Sullivan
feeling_zen posted:

Yeah Bruce I had a similar experience swapping out the stock lead on HD600 with a Furutec led of similar cost, Huge upgrade.

I will say this though. Headphone lead upgrades are, like speaker cables, dependent on synergy with the amp. The Furutec lead was a massive upgrade when the HD600 were used with a serious headphone amp. When used with the built-in amp on the UQ2 the lead was a massive downgrade as they just made the headphone amp struggle.

So I would suggest any time you plug your cans into another amp, you might need to test with and without the Chord cable.

Interesting feeling_zen. I have the HD800 through an UQ2 in my media room and recently upgraded to a Nova in the lounge. The HD800's through the Nova are a big lift in SQ. I have been wondering about a headphone amp, but am unsure how to interface it with the UQ2 or Nova in terms of output selection and volumes control if using the Naim App - how would that work? Would you recommend the Naim headphone amp for system synergy? 

Posted on: 04 September 2018 by Bruce Woodhouse

Interesting

The nature of the benefit sounds pretty much the same through my un-amplified Astell + Kern Kann as through the main system and the Arcam rHead headphone amp, but the headphone amp does give better performance generally so perhaps the step forward is a bit less marked. This is the opposite of your finding I suppose. Hard to quantify, and I have not used them enough on each set-up to compare fully.

Mike, don't forget the Naim Headline also needs a dedicated Naim power supply-it is quite an investment. I've never heard it but there are some very good value non-Naim alternatives out there if you wanted to try something. The Arcam is £170!

Bruce

Posted on: 04 September 2018 by feeling_zen

[@mention:76046838160956631]

I think you will be surprised what the HD800 really do on a real headphone amp. I have HD600 and HD800. On the UQ2 with a hi-end cable, the sound of the HD600 was very forced and the worst I had heard from them in a while. Previously, I had used them with a Sennheiser headphone amp, a Linn Majik integrated, a Rega Ear, and Naim HeadLine2/NAPSC and they sounded great in all scenarios. But the UQ2 headphone amp is just not cut out for any 300 Ohm headphone in my opinion. The stock lead made them listenable again. But I know what they used to sound like on the previous setups and it is still a ways off. I use them because I have them. If I was buying new for the UQ2, I'd expect better performance by going lower down the Sennheiser range to their 150 Ohm units or lower. Like HD598.

As for the HD800, I found that even a Naim Headline2/NAPSC didn't do them full justice. It sounded okay. When I had a spare HCDR and put that on the HeadLine2, they sounded incredible. I think some of this is down to the HCDR being a better PS but also that it provides 18v compared to 15v on the NAPSC and the Headline really does better on this.

Posted on: 04 September 2018 by Mike Sullivan

Thanks [@mention:35920103255542881] & [@mention:1566878603956576], a bit of research required I think. Family life means that I use headphones a lot, so it might be worth a step up.

Posted on: 04 September 2018 by feeling_zen

Don't go crazy. It could all get expensive fast. Uniti products don't have any fixed line out for use with a headphone amp. If I were you, I'd buy a lesser pair of headphones for the media room that are easy to drive like HD598 or even non Sennheiser. And continue with the HD800 on the Nova until you natually happen to be making system changes that give you more options. Sennheiser headphones stay decent and current for ages. I got my HD600 back in 1999 and they have seen me through many system changes with a recent refit of all the foam padding to restore their original glory. 

When that day comes in 5 or 10 years and you take the opportunity to attach a dedicated headphone amp, you'll feel like you got a brand new pair of headphones as a bargain. 

Posted on: 04 September 2018 by Mike Sullivan
feeling_zen posted:

Don't go crazy. It could all get expensive fast. Uniti products don't have any fixed line out for use with a headphone amp. If I were you, I'd buy a lesser pair of headphones for the media room that are easy to drive like HD598 or even non Sennheiser. And continue with the HD800 on the Nova until you natually happen to be making system changes that give you more options. Sennheiser headphones stay decent and current for ages. I got my HD600 back in 1999 and they have seen me through many system changes with a recent refit of all the foam padding to restore their original glory. 

When that day comes in 5 or 10 years and you take the opportunity to attach a dedicated headphone amp, you'll feel like you got a brand new pair of headphones as a bargain. 

Thanks, I’ve probally spent as much as Ishould at this stage. I have my old headphones I can try in the media room, AKG K240 (55 ohms) and Klipsch noise cancelling (can’t see the model number), I’ll give them a run for comparison.

Posted on: 08 September 2018 by Mike Sullivan

[@mention:35920103255542881], I compared the AKG K240 (55 ohms) and the HD800 on the UC2. The HD800 possibly have slightly more detail, but overall sounded subdued compared to the AKG’s, sounding alomost compressed and forced, whereas the AKG’s sounded much more open and wide in the soundscape.

In my research on the web, I couldn’t find the ohm output rating for the UC2, but an article on the Naim page shows the Nova having very low impendance for the headphones at 0.5 ohm, which I guess explains why the HD800’s sound so good on the Nova. So, your suggestions spot on. Use the HD800’s on the Nova and revert to the AKG’s on the UC2 in the media room.

Posted on: 08 September 2018 by DrPo

HD 800's require power. I have both HD800 and AKG K701. In my office system driven by an entry level AudioGD DAC/amp the Sennheisers lose against the AKG... In my main system (NDX -> Violectric 200) it is a night and day difference (in favor of the HD 800 of course), but the Violectric is quite powerful...

Posted on: 20 September 2018 by Mike Sullivan

Bit of an update. I had the pleasure of attending an NDX2 launch this week and we got into a discussion about the headphone stages in the Uniti range. I had been really pleased with the performance of the HD800’s on my new Nova, but my older UC2 struggled and they sounded constrained. Anyway, it transpires that Naim significantly upgraded the headphone stages across the full new Uniti range, and each model has the upgraded stage. Meaning for me, if I want better SQ in my media room, I could swap the UC2 for an Atom, still use the NAP100 and have better headphone output that would drive the HD800 and better speaker output to boot. Food for thought.