PMC Twenty5.26 too much for system?

Posted by: CallmeTom on 09 September 2018

Hi,

I have a Supernait2 with a CD5 XS, a pretty basic Pro-Ject turntable with Ruark Prelude floorstand speakers. My room is quite large - 80% of my listening is through the CD player.

Iím thinking about changing my speakers and would like some advice from the forum before I audition any.

Iíve read & been told that PMC speakers work well with Naim equipment. What are your thoughts on PMC and  Twenty5.24 vs Twenty5.26 with my system - would the 26ís be overkill?

I often see the older Twenty 26 models for the same price as the newer Twenty5.24s. Would it be worth considering the older 20.26?

Any advice on this and other suitable speakers gratefully received.

Posted on: 09 September 2018 by hungryhalibut

I like PMCs and used to own the twenty.23 when I used a SuperUniti. Iíd say that the 26 is far too much and that the 24 may be pushing it. If I were you Iíd reduce the budget for speakers and significantly upgrade your source. For the £8,000 that the 26 would cost you could find a used CDS3, and and XPS2 and still have £4,000 for speakers. The Kudos S20 is very good and can be found used for £3,000 from an authorised dealer. The CDS3, SN2 and £4,000 speakers would knock spots off your electronics with the 26s. 

Posted on: 09 September 2018 by Halloween Man

I say get the 25.26 if your SN2 can drive them, ask PMC, it's a superb speaker and far superior to the 24 due to the dedicated mid and bass drivers. It will be very hard to find a better speaker than 25.26. One such speaker that competes with it is ATC SCM40, again well worth a listen. Defo not overkill, get the best speakers you can.

I had home demo of 20.26 and would have kept them if my room could take the bass they offered.

Posted on: 09 September 2018 by alfy

Following my own experience 

did demo the PMC 523 & 524

prefered the 523 for me more natural and balanced, but even more so the new Spendor A7 which took things to another level ,very natural even more musical and with killer lows. 

Good luck

Posted on: 09 September 2018 by feeling_zen

I'd also say that just because you can afford something doesn't mean you should. I budgeted for PMC Twenty5.26 a few years back. Certainly they would be a good match for the system. But my dealer reminded me that even in a large room like mine (8m x 6m ish) the Twenty5.23 will fill the room brilliantly and the 26 push over the top. He'd have been happy to take my money for 26s but counselled me to wait until I had an even larger room. Yes the 26s are a more capable speaker but the question isn't just about whether the electronics are up to it.

And to be fair, the 23s, small as they may be, are almost too much for my room - so my dealer was spot on in his assessment.

Posted on: 09 September 2018 by Halloween Man

8mx6m would be a large room to me.

I agree, only buy 25.26 if your room can take the bass. I've learned from experience it's best to match speaker to room.

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by Folkman

Its not only the size of the room that matters , its more about its furnishings and any room treatments.

Im using PMC MB2se in a 6.5 x 4.3m room with brilliant results.

Home dem required.

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by feeling_zen
Folkman posted:

Its not only the size of the room that matters , its more about its furnishings and any room treatments.

Im using PMC MB2se in a 6.5 x 4.3m room with brilliant results.

Home dem required.

This is 100% true. A small room with the right flooring, walls and furnishing might be okay.

If you have a lot of empty wooden cabinets and a sprung wooden floor, hollow non load bearing walls... a speaker that can move a lot of LF air probably has little chance of fulfilling its potential. My room has to deal with all of that and hence why Twenty5.23 is about as much as I dare put in it.

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by Timmo1341

I take pretty much the opposite view to the Ďsource firstí brigade. I use NAC 272 with 555DRPS and NAP 250DR into ProAc K6 speakers (on Stillpoints Ultra SS, not spikes) in a room approx. 16í x 16í with a suspended wooden floor. Sounds exquisite to me! I demoed smaller, less expensive speakers (ProAc D30r, Spendor A7 - not a fan of PMC Iím afraid). The K6 simply left the others for dead, and gave me a system I cannot imagine ever wanting to change. Were Naim to bring out an upgraded, much improved 272 I would consider it, but as I want no more than 3 boxes thatís as far as I would  go. 

Most important advice is to have a home demo, then trust your ears, never someone elseís mantra!

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by Man with no Naim

I currently have a pair of PMC Twenty5 26, driven by Uniti Nova in a approximate 4.5m x 4.5m x 3.0m room (excluding bay and Chimney). The room is plastered walls, carpeted wooden floor and with two settee's. The PMC's are a delight to listen to in this room. I previously had a pair of PMC Twenty5 23, same amp and room. The 26's just give more detail and bigger soundstage, no bass boom problem that I can hear. I previously ran ATC SCM40 with ATC amplifiers in same room. However, to me PMC/Nova produces a better sound for room, unless you really crank the 40's up.

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by Mayor West

SN2 will drive the older 20.26's comfortably although I can tell that they would probably come alive with more juice. I picked them up cheap when they were discontinued. As others have pointed out, I think I'm probably over speakered but I got them with the intention of upgrading electronics when funds permit. As it stands, the SN2 does a pretty stellar job.

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by hungryhalibut
Timmo1341 posted:

I take pretty much the opposite view to the Ďsource firstí brigade. I use NAC 272 with 555DRPS and NAP 250DR into ProAc K6 speakers (on Stillpoints Ultra SS, not spikes) in a room approx. 16í x 16í with a suspended wooden floor. Sounds exquisite to me! I demoed smaller, less expensive speakers (ProAc D30r, Spendor A7 - not a fan of PMC Iím afraid). The K6 simply left the others for dead, and gave me a system I cannot imagine ever wanting to change. Were Naim to bring out an upgraded, much improved 272 I would consider it, but as I want no more than 3 boxes thatís as far as I would  go. 

Most important advice is to have a home demo, then trust your ears, never someone elseís mantra!

Iím not sure this is about brigades: itís not a war. What matters is finding something that works. Big speakers may give a big impressive sound, but itís the source that provides the fundamental music. Try both options and see which floats the boat. 

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by Man with no Naim

Good advice from HH. Unless you can buy at a price, which you can sell on without loss.

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by Mike Sullivan

We've a similar discussion about room size and speakers here https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...67#76892143125477967

 

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by crackie

I tried this very speaker about a year ago. Home demo. over a longweekend and I was about to place my hard earned over and get them to replace my S400 as well.

Unfortunatly I got some annoying siblance from the tweeter with vocals on certain tracks. I played a few more , it was still there, and it was enough to put me off buying them.

Which was unfortunate, as I absolutely loved the bass (the speed and bass definition was the equal of the S400 IMHO)  midrange , dynamic range and overall engagement that I got from these speakers. The 90% that I loved was underdone by the 10% sibilance that I got in my room/music choices/system set up etc. Or perhaps it was just me and my hearing was out of whack to this particular tweeter.

If they work for you, go fo it, as you can always grow your system around these quality speakers.

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by Innocent Bystander

PMCs are different from most other brands in using transmission line loading for bass, which presents the bass differently. I have found from experience that I much prefer the sound of bass from transmission line speakers, and they seem somewhat less prone to room dependency, though placement of all speakers (and listening position) is important. The downside with transmission lines is that they tend to be costly (and large).

Others have mentioned the need to audition - and that applies at two levels: i) whether they have any problem in your room (though that might be possible to mitigate at least to some extent by playing with positioning and acoustics, and ii) whether you like the way they present music (i.e how they sound), and whilst affected by room that is fundamental to the speakers.

Some years ago I was looking for good speakers at a relatively high price point, and auditioned 12 or 13, all coming highly recommended in the hifi press and most being the pinnacle of their respective manufacturersí ranges. I was astounded at how very different they sounded - like chalk and cheese. All but 3 sounded so bad to me that the audition didnít get past one track, one lasted a bit longer, leaving just 2 Requiring rather more in-depth listening. Given the relatively rarified level it showed me how far from perfection speakers are to sound that different - and how vital it is to hear for yourself and not go by what others say, at least not unless you know someoneís taste in sound presentation well enough to know that they like it the same as you. The speaker I chose was IMF TLS50, which is probably roughly equivalent to the 26, and they have sounded good in a variety of rooms - indeed  every room I have heard them in.

As well as doing bass better than their smaller brethren the 26s I believe will be better in the midange due to having a separate driver (I donít have direct experience as Iíve heard nothing below the 26). Regarding bass, only you can decide if they are too much for your taste, being a personal preference. Buying secondhand may mean you canít try at home, but any seller should allow you to audition first, and great if they have perhaps a similarly sized and furnished room. If you canít try at home, ask if you can take your existing speakers to hear in comparison in tge same plac, as the comparative difference would very much help you decide. Ideally also your amp because that is what tpyou would be driving with, even your source (and yes, last time I auditioned soeakers I did just that with speakers in someoneís private home, despite mine being huge, and speakers, amp and source at a couple of dealers).

 

Posted on: 10 September 2018 by Timmo1341
hungryhalibut posted:
Timmo1341 posted:

I take pretty much the opposite view to the Ďsource firstí brigade. I use NAC 272 with 555DRPS and NAP 250DR into ProAc K6 speakers (on Stillpoints Ultra SS, not spikes) in a room approx. 16í x 16í with a suspended wooden floor. Sounds exquisite to me! I demoed smaller, less expensive speakers (ProAc D30r, Spendor A7 - not a fan of PMC Iím afraid). The K6 simply left the others for dead, and gave me a system I cannot imagine ever wanting to change. Were Naim to bring out an upgraded, much improved 272 I would consider it, but as I want no more than 3 boxes thatís as far as I would  go. 

Most important advice is to have a home demo, then trust your ears, never someone elseís mantra!

Iím not sure this is about brigades: itís not a war. What matters is finding something that works. Big speakers may give a big impressive sound, but itís the source that provides the fundamental music. Try both options and see which floats the boat. 

I think we more or less agree! Poor quality source = c**p output no matter what speakers are used. However, once a Ďgoodí level of source is reached (and Iím sure youíll agree we both share a pretty fair level in the 272+555) then if you feed that to a poor speaker the result will also be c**p? Of greater importance, I believe, is to match speakers with room characteristics, and your own personal ambitions in respect of sound achieved. Whether or not a £5k, £10k, £15k or more pair be chosen, itís not about whether they can theoretically complement an ever higher level of source, but more about do they sound good to the listener with that level of source. Iím sure your SL2s would sound wonderful with a 500 level source (as would, I imagine, my ProAcs) - does that mean you or I shouldnít employ them with your/my current source and amp level? Of course not. Iím often surprised by some with £80k+ levels of source and amplification choosing to play back through a pair of £4k (new cost) pair of speakers. Their system, their choice, there is no right or wrong, only opinions of individuals, each of which is as valid as the others. 

Posted on: 11 September 2018 by Richieroo

Look don't worry what people say use your ears....it may just be great..it which case these speakers will serve you well ... and possibly if you upgrade.

Posted on: 12 September 2018 by Innocent Bystander

Thereís a pair of Fact 12 speakers currently up for sale for just Ä4,500. It is a much better speaker (Iat least, Iíve heard it against the Twenty26), which also has the benefit of being able to tailor the bass and treble slightly, to help adjust to different rooms. The downside is that these ones they appear to be in Spain, so a greater challenge/logistics/cost to purchase. Thereís another pair on the same Spanish website listed as £5,200 (not Ä) and oddly showing the seller or possibly the location of the speakers as Newcastle upon Tyne. If interested look up Comoficho. Iíve seen some occasionally on eBay maybe down to £5-6k - however Iíve no idea what is your maximum budget.

Posted on: 12 September 2018 by Richieroo

I have seen a number of 20.26 on a certain site for around 3k .... apparently new.....if you have auditioned some they may be worth a punt....

Posted on: 14 September 2018 by CallmeTom

Thanks all for the advice - I like the idea of a 2nd hand 20.26 or FACT 12 - but just not willing to shell out that kind of money without listening to them first.

Iím going to audition a 25.24 this week and a Spendor D7 pair this week and will try my favourite at home. Will update with my thoughts once Iíve made my choice.

 

Posted on: 14 September 2018 by Richieroo

Oh...you reminded me try the Spendor A7 ... a very dynamic speaker....

Posted on: 14 September 2018 by Innocent Bystander
CallmeTom posted:

Thanks all for the advice - I like the idea of a 2nd hand 20.26 or FACT 12 - but just not willing to shell out that kind of money without listening to them first.

Iím going to audition a 25.24 this week and a Spendor D7 pair this week and will try my favourite at home. Will update with my thoughts once Iíve made my choice.

 

You certainly will be able to audition, though less certain at home. Dealer in Hull is selling two new Twenty26s at not much more than half the Twentyfive26 list price. Dealer in Teeside has ex demo one £1k less. Being dealers used to selling decent gear they may allow home confirmation audition even if you are a long way away.

But for the initial audition at the dealer take your own speakers so you have a reference point, the comparison helping you assess in a different room.

if it was me, spending that sort of money, travelling some distance would seem justified to get the right thing. Rathr, that is exactly what I did 2 or 3 years ago I did a trip that took 48 hours, over 800 miles of driving, two ferry journeys, a hotel stay, auditioning speakers at private seller  in Portsmouth, a dealer in Hull and a dealer in Gateshead. And I lugged my own large and heavy old IMF speakers to all, unqestionally accepted by all. The cost I felt was justified, when I was considering spending up to £10k on speakers (but actually spent less).

in fact is when I heard the 20-26, and the first time I heard Fact 12.

Posted on: 14 September 2018 by Timo
Innocent Bystander posted:
CallmeTom posted:

Thanks all for the advice - I like the idea of a 2nd hand 20.26 or FACT 12 - but just not willing to shell out that kind of money without listening to them first.

Iím going to audition a 25.24 this week and a Spendor D7 pair this week and will try my favourite at home. Will update with my thoughts once Iíve made my choice.

 

You certainly will be able to audition, though less certain at home. Dealer in Hull is selling two new Twenty26s at not much more than half the Twentyfive26 list price. Dealer in Teeside has ex demo one £1k less. Being dealers used to selling decent gear they may allow home confirmation audition even if you are a long way away.

But for the initial audition at the dealer take your own speakers so you have a reference point, the comparison helping you assess in a different room.

if it was me, spending that sort of money, travelling some distance would seem justified to get the right thing. Rathr, that is exactly what I did 2 or 3 years ago I did a trip that took 48 hours, over 800 miles of driving, two ferry journeys, a hotel stay, auditioning speakers at private seller  in Portsmouth, a dealer in Hull and a dealer in Gateshead. And I lugged my own large and heavy old IMF speakers to all, unqestionally accepted by all. The cost I felt was justified, when I was considering spending up to £10k on speakers (but actually spent less).

in fact is when I heard the 20-26, and the first time I heard Fact 12.

I donít know whether it has been mentioned here the dealer in Hull also has ex-demo 25.26. I dealt with them ó great guys, especially Dave. If he hasnĎt changed his home set-up, heĎs a happy PMC owner too ó PMC 20.23, I think...

Posted on: 26 December 2018 by scubafink

I auditioned the twenty5 series recently. The 25.22 shares the same mid driver as the 25.24, so if you like the standmounters (25.22) but are searching for a little more bass extension, the 25.24s will be sublime.  The 25.23 with the smaller mid driver (to the 22 and 24) lacked the presence of the 22 or the 24 (to my ears).